1303

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Re: 1303

Postby LoudmouthBFC » 12 Sep 2017, 08:07

I don't think the ticket prices are high enough, being a club in London we should be paying London prices :whistle:
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Re: 1303

Postby eastbarnetsupporter » 12 Sep 2017, 08:27

Tried to convince my colleague to come tonight and said £19 was too much for L2 (let alone the £25 for the West).

As Hoofer2 said, we have a core of 1300, and I remember back in the early 2000s it was about that too at Underhill.

A cup run to gain publicity would help, but even that sudden increase would probably subside over time if the league football results didn't keep up.

Let's just accept we have a small following (we always have) and until we get to L1, it's most likely going to stay around this 1,300 figure.
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Re: 1303

Postby Mikel Bee » 12 Sep 2017, 09:36

Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.
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Re: 1303

Postby hoofer2 » 12 Sep 2017, 11:06

Mikel Bee wrote:Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.



If the number of doorstep fans of Arsenal/Spurs for Stevenage is considered huge, we stand no chance then. Stevenage is a large town that does not have any large club geographically within a 10 mile radius. In addition, we also have West Ham, Palace and Chelsea to add to the mix just from the Premier League. It's not the same comparison.
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Re: 1303

Postby BeesKnees » 12 Sep 2017, 12:52

hoofer2 wrote:If the number of doorstep fans of Arsenal/Spurs for Stevenage is considered huge, we stand no chance then. Stevenage is a large town that does not have any large club geographically within a 10 mile radius. In addition, we also have West Ham, Palace and Chelsea to add to the mix just from the Premier League. It's not the same comparison.


I'm not convinced by this argument. Your local area isn't determined by geographical distances, particularly in London. It's quicker for Stevenage residents to reach the Emirates Stadium by public transport (30 min) than it is Barnet residents to reach the Hive. So it would be a fairer assessment to work out how many other clubs are within 30 minutes travel time and then make the comparison. The only clubs that seem to meet this are Spurs while they are at Wembley

I'd like to think the club are using these tools to help determine where to market
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-planning-and-construction/planning-with-webcat/webcat?lat=51.60151&lon=-0.28887&type=Tim&locationId=ChIJAagX1QAUdkgRVrVS0R0VE4E&input=HA8+6AG&selectedCompareType=&selectedCompareValue=&travelTimeInterval=15&zoomLevel=14&places=Stations+stops+and+piers%7CTravel+times&places=Stations+stops+and+piers%7CTravel+times&scenario=Base+Year&mode=All&timeOfDay=INTER&direction=From
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Re: 1303

Postby dpa » 12 Sep 2017, 12:53

It is clear from the thread and the number of well thought out viewpoints that there appears to be number of factors that are resulting in our current attendance levels. As a result I do not feel that 1 answer will resolve. I do however agree with one of the posts above that since 2005, we have never really pushed on and our football at times has been 'industrial' rather than enjoyable.

From a personal viewpoint.....

My father has supported Barnet since 1959 and myself since I could walk (born 1970). I have previously been a season ticket holder (Underhill) and a held a membership (Hive) for 2 years (cancelled last year).

However my father and I don't come as frequently anymore because of 2 issues.

1) The quality of the football - under Martin Allen in particular, the football has been bland/ boring/ hoof ball and sometimes just not enjoyable to watch. As I do not live in London, I commit 1/2 a day every other weekend supporting 'my team' and after years of mediocre entertainment it becomes easier and easier to find excuses not to go to games anymore; which is very sad. I suspect I am not the only one when considering the current attendance numbers. I am however hopeful that Rossi and the current squad will improve on the entertainment factor - good signs so far

2) Cost - My father is a pensioner and so the cost of 2 x West Stand membership tickets for the season (excluding any sign on fee) works out @ £672 for the year for us both. So I have to earn over £1kpa to cover that cost - before you factor in travelling costs (I like near MK), programme costs & occasional parking. This is a sizeable sum. When you consider point 1 above, over time I have decided that its just not viable to sustain my membership costs. I didn't feel I was getting value for the money. As a result, my father and I now pick and choose the games we go to - so far we have seen Luton & Cambridge @ home. I will be going to Carlisle on Saturday as never been before. Overall I reckon we will do about 10 home games in the coming season if the quality of football improves and maybe the odd away game per season. Each home game will cost me £39 a game for us both = max £390 for the season versus £672 = no brainer in my opinion.

If the cost was reduced would I go more often? yes.

Does the above call into question my support and love for the club? I leave others to decide that. I have just come to a point, like perhaps others, that the benefit of going to watch my team is outweighed by the cost.

I do think however that a winning team playing good attacking football will help reinvigorate the support (past & new) and hopefully get more bums on seats. I know it will make it harder for me to find 'excuses' not to go.

Cheers

Dean
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Re: 1303

Postby jdmckbee » 12 Sep 2017, 14:01

dpa wrote:It is clear from the thread and the number of well thought out viewpoints that there appears to be number of factors that are resulting in our current attendance levels. As a result I do not feel that 1 answer will resolve. I do however agree with one of the posts above that since 2005, we have never really pushed on and our football at times has been 'industrial' rather than enjoyable.

From a personal viewpoint.....

My father has supported Barnet since 1959 and myself since I could walk (born 1970). I have previously been a season ticket holder (Underhill) and a held a membership (Hive) for 2 years (cancelled last year).

However my father and I don't come as frequently anymore because of 2 issues.

1) The quality of the football - under Martin Allen in particular, the football has been bland/ boring/ hoof ball and sometimes just not enjoyable to watch. As I do not live in London, I commit 1/2 a day every other weekend supporting 'my team' and after years of mediocre entertainment it becomes easier and easier to find excuses not to go to games anymore; which is very sad. I suspect I am not the only one when considering the current attendance numbers. I am however hopeful that Rossi and the current squad will improve on the entertainment factor - good signs so far

2) Cost - My father is a pensioner and so the cost of 2 x West Stand membership tickets for the season (excluding any sign on fee) works out @ £672 for the year for us both. So I have to earn over £1kpa to cover that cost - before you factor in travelling costs (I like near MK), programme costs & occasional parking. This is a sizeable sum. When you consider point 1 above, over time I have decided that its just not viable to sustain my membership costs. I didn't feel I was getting value for the money. As a result, my father and I now pick and choose the games we go to - so far we have seen Luton & Cambridge @ home. I will be going to Carlisle on Saturday as never been before. Overall I reckon we will do about 10 home games in the coming season if the quality of football improves and maybe the odd away game per season. Each home game will cost me £39 a game for us both = max £390 for the season versus £672 = no brainer in my opinion.

If the cost was reduced would I go more often? yes.

Does the above call into question my support and love for the club? I leave others to decide that. I have just come to a point, like perhaps others, that the benefit of going to watch my team is outweighed by the cost.

I do think however that a winning team playing good attacking football will help reinvigorate the support (past & new) and hopefully get more bums on seats. I know it will make it harder for me to find 'excuses' not to go.

Cheers

Dean


Excellent post this.
We're the West Bank Underhill......
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Re: 1303

Postby ninestein » 12 Sep 2017, 14:44

The attendance issue is a massive puzzle in the sense there's so many pieces of the jigsaw which play a part.
Lots of valid points raised already. I touched on this in the Chairman's Q&A thread, but I'll repeat it here because it's relevant:

The membership scheme which TK champions is reasonably good value for money, so long as you can attend most of the games throughout the season. However, apart from giving out free tickets to schools/clubs and hoping some of them come back, we need a means to attract the casual new fan in. This could be a parent & child taking in their first match experience. Likewise, It could also be a floating adult fan who normally follows another club but can't get tickets so goes elsewhere for a football fix as a one-off.

We shouldn't expect these people to see one match and then immediately sign up for a membership. Depending on the match experience on offer, they may wish to take a second look on another day, or even a third visit before making that sort of commitment. This is much easier when the team is performing well and winning games. Typically these matches harness the atmosphere better and for a kid coming to watch for the first time this is massive. If their first visit is a drab 2-0 defeat then we probably won't see them again for a long time, or at all. Therefore, we need to find a way of offering something to non-members in the short term. The BOGOF ticket offers are one example, but we need to ensure that new fans are the ones taking us up on it. Kids for a quid is another good example, lots of other clubs do it, but promote it early and really advertise it, not just a week's notice. I think some clubs also offer a half year season ticket, but as the membership scheme is paid monthly anyway, it's probably not worth trying.

I liked the idea last season of members getting free extra tickets for lower category games. I used some of mine to let my colleague at work and his son watch the Notts County match. His son had played a tournament at the Hive a few weeks prior, and they enjoyed the game. If the right fixture came along, they'd probably come back of their own accord, but I know they would never sign up for a membership because of other footballing commitments. Problem is, I can see a lot of these free tickets being taken up and given to people who would normally come anyway, thus "bucking the system".

Rossi and the team have made great strides already in improving the quality of football on offer. Results are starting to match it, and we're not just winning games 1-0, we're scoring goals. If this continues in the coming weeks, I can see some of our existing fans returning in the short term, but we still need to reach out to the local area more if we want to grow our membership.

In order to do this, maybe the club should tap into our knowledge a bit more... Think about what drew people to watch Barnet at Underhill years ago: It was local, you could walk or bus it to the ground and not worry about driving home, and therefore enjoy a drink in the clubhouse afterwards. The football under Fry was great fun to watch, you were likely to see goals and matches being won. Kids could stand close to the pitch and feel a part of the action. You could just pay for a one-off game and watch. The prices were what they were and fair for the level of football we were playing (albeit at the time this was prior to the Premier League / Sky's domination of the game and subsequently all the costs within the game spiralling out of control). I'm sure the rest of you have your own other reasons for attending Barnet rather than going to one of the giants. Maybe we need to capture those reasons and think about how we can apply them to today as we seek to find the next generation of fans.
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Re: 1303

Postby pgbee » 12 Sep 2017, 15:01

Mikel Bee wrote:Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.

On the other hand, Crawley (I'd say a similar fan base to ourselves) probably haven't maintained their crowd increase after relegation from L1. There maybe good reasons for that especially that they are lower mid table rather than challenging like Stevenage have done....
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Re: 1303

Postby jerroll » 12 Sep 2017, 15:36

pgbee wrote:
Mikel Bee wrote:Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.

On the other hand, Crawley (I'd say a similar fan base to ourselves) probably haven't maintained their crowd increase after relegation from L1. There maybe good reasons for that especially that they are lower mid table rather than challenging like Stevenage have done....

not sure Crawley are a decent example, may have picked up a few brighton fans who couldn't get in at Withdean during their bankrolled rise but I remember them as a c**p club in the southern prem with 600 crowds not that long ago.
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Re: 1303

Postby pgbee » 12 Sep 2017, 15:38

I was really comparing Crawley to Stevenage not us! We are far too classy to be compared :-)
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Re: 1303

Postby ninestein » 12 Sep 2017, 15:48

We have been at the Hive just over 4 seasons now (doesn't time fly!), and apart from the Gateshead match which clinched the Conference title, we've not yet had a proper big cup tie or playoff match to last a long time in the memory bank as fans.

Since 1992, we had 3 x league playoff semis (Blackpool, Colchester, Posh), 1 x conference playoff semi (Shrewsbury), plus well attended cup games against Man City, QPR, West Ham, Norwich, Middlesbrough, Watford, plus the two seasons we made the 4th round of the FA Cup, which despite the poor draws against Plymouth & Rovers, still captured the imagination of the occasion. In 20 years that's a reasonable number of big occasions. You could also argue the Chelsea game fits in there as we were actually drawn at home but switched the tie to Stamford Bridge. The long and short of it is we need to start building more memories at the Hive. The cup draw is always down to luck, we can't influence that, but we can help by getting into the hat for the next rounds, and competing well in our division to give ourselves a chance of a top 3 or top 7 finish.

Big occasions build bonds between fans and their club. It invokes pride amongst fans, provokes discussion at home, at work, at school. It puts the club on the map.
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Re: 1303

Postby BeesKnees » 12 Sep 2017, 16:13

ninestein wrote:We have been at the Hive just over 4 seasons now (doesn't time fly!), and apart from the Gateshead match which clinched the Conference title, we've not yet had a proper big cup tie or playoff match to last a long time in the memory bank as fans.

Since 1992, we had 3 x league playoff semis (Blackpool, Colchester, Posh), 1 x conference playoff semi (Shrewsbury), plus well attended cup games against Man City, QPR, West Ham, Norwich, Middlesbrough, Watford, plus the two seasons we made the 4th round of the FA Cup, which despite the poor draws against Plymouth & Rovers, still captured the imagination of the occasion. In 20 years that's a reasonable number of big occasions. You could also argue the Chelsea game fits in there as we were actually drawn at home but switched the tie to Stamford Bridge. The long and short of it is we need to start building more memories at the Hive. The cup draw is always down to luck, we can't influence that, but we can help by getting into the hat for the next rounds, and competing well in our division to give ourselves a chance of a top 3 or top 7 finish.

Big occasions build bonds between fans and their club. It invokes pride amongst fans, provokes discussion at home, at work, at school. It puts the club on the map.
Exactly right.
Big competitive games at the Hive and appearing at Wembley through play offs could entice casual fans and those who live near to the ground. It only needs a small percentage of those who go to this kind of match to be persuaded to come more often and it will have a significant impact on home support.
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Re: 1303

Postby Golf Delta » 23 Sep 2017, 17:52

Question for Tony K.

Looking at the crowd of 1602 today against Crawley, who admittedly didn't bring many despite not being a million miles away, and without being able to use the excuses of summer holidays, poor weather or local Premiership games - do you ever stand there and think that you've got the pricing structure totally wrong? How many people might have turned up today but didn't because the £25 cost of a ticket put them off?
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Re: 1303

Postby Mickbee » 23 Sep 2017, 18:19

Golf Delta wrote:Question for Tony K.

Looking at the crowd of 1602 today against Crawley, who admittedly didn't bring many despite not being a million miles away, and without being able to use the excuses of summer holidays, poor weather or local Premiership games - do you ever stand there and think that you've got the pricing structure totally wrong? How many people might have turned up today but didn't because the £25 cost of a ticket put them off?



Ask him. He always about in the Bars or e-mail him. Let me know what he says.
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