The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

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rudebwoyben
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235831Post rudebwoyben »

MCB wrote:
X-Bumble wrote:Does anyone else not understand the middle of the last paragraph? - what fan, a fan of who, and how does that quote equate to anything someone would be a fan of?

Also, this is some argument between councils and has nothing to do with us. Shame Blackman feels the need to try and drag us into it.
A fan of Barnet i'd presume, but you're right, it doesn't follow on as well as it should.

It involves us because it only came to light when Grandstanding Bob used his parliamentary privileges for the sole purpose of bashing Barnet FC - which will come at a cost of £1 million to his constituents.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... iveStadium
I thought that quote might be from you as you're a Camden resident IIRC!
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235832Post MCB »

rudebwoyben wrote: I thought that quote might be from you as you're a Camden resident IIRC!
:whistle:
StephenM
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235844Post StephenM »

X-Bumble wrote:Does anyone else not understand the middle of the last paragraph? - what fan, a fan of who, and how does that quote equate to anything someone would be a fan of?

Also, this is some argument between councils and has nothing to do with us. Shame Blackman feels the need to try and drag us into it.
It's probably a completely made up quote which, rather than attribute it to any named individual, they have just gone with a generic "fan".
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235845Post MCB »

StephenM wrote: It's probably a completely made up quote which, rather than attribute it to any named individual, they have just gone with a generic "fan".
As alluded to, the quote is from a Camden living Barnet FC fan I know who wanted to remain anonymous, it wasn't made up.
dawat
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235893Post dawat »

MCB wrote:
X-Bumble wrote:Does anyone else not understand the middle of the last paragraph? - what fan, a fan of who, and how does that quote equate to anything someone would be a fan of?

Also, this is some argument between councils and has nothing to do with us. Shame Blackman feels the need to try and drag us into it.
A fan of Barnet i'd presume, but you're right, it doesn't follow on as well as it should.

It involves us because it only came to light when Grandstanding Bob used his parliamentary privileges for the sole purpose of bashing Barnet FC - which will come at a cost of £1 million to his constituents.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... iveStadium
Bob Blackman has obviously taken umbrage at the rough treatment his son Andre gets from our fans when playing for us and is seeking revenge! That aside, any cost to his local rate payers is of no interest to Bob Blackman as, like politicians of all persuasions, spending or giving away other peoples money comes easily to them, whilst they gab as much money for themselves as possible!
DerekRocholl
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235894Post DerekRocholl »

I didn’t think our fan who lived in Camden was particUlarly concerned about being incognito on this. He was pretty transparent with things on Twitter.

Very impressed that the paper managed to get a photo of the Dive looking reasonably full. It’s a rare event.
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235983Post MCB »

Yeh, I quite liked the photo too. Perhaps it's time we put an offer in the CNJ to bring in all these Spurs/Arsenal fans!

Not sure you're referring to the right Camden resident though HiveO?

Anyway, stories now live: http://camdennewjournal.com/article/the ... ields-deal
simmosenior
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235991Post simmosenior »

The article is confused. The William Ellis sports ground is on the other side of the road - Camrose Avenue - about 300 yards from The Hive.
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 235992Post MCB »

simmosenior wrote:The article is confused. The William Ellis sports ground is on the other side of the road - Camrose Avenue - about 300 yards from The Hive.
PEPF though was built on ex-ILEA land that was given to Camden. There's an ex-Ellis boy on this forum who went there in the 60's I think who may be able to confirm.
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John_c
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 236053Post John_c »

MCB wrote:
simmosenior wrote:The article is confused. The William Ellis sports ground is on the other side of the road - Camrose Avenue - about 300 yards from The Hive.
PEPF though was built on ex-ILEA land that was given to Camden. There's an ex-Ellis boy on this forum who went there in the 60's I think who may be able to confirm.
It was the 70s and 80s, fuck off.

Yes, William Ellis playing fields were further up Camrose Avenue to The Hive.

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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 284675Post MCB »

So, it could be viewed as petty because I don't like Bob Blackman, and found his grandstanding regarding this incident (read from Page 1 of this thread for background) petty beyond belief, I have been following up on this to enquire as to whether Harrow have actually paid Camden the amount Bob claimed they were due when he led his friday night adjournment on television. I mean, he wouldn't be making this up would he?

Anyway, Harrow were very quiet. So I submitted a Freedom Of Information request. It's taken a while as it was taken off them by the borough's lawyers, who have now responded, with a very unsatisfactory response.

Full query and response below.
Freedom of Information Request

Thank you for your request for information received on 08th Aug 2019.

This request is being handled under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

I have detailed below the information you have requested and what is being released to you.

In 2017 the MP for Harrow East Bob Blackman raised an adjournment debate in the House of Commons regarding the sale of land to Barnet FC in his borough. See: https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2 ... iveStadium

The relevant issue raised was that as a result of the sale of land (Prince Edwards Playing Fields / The Hive) Camden Council is owed £1 million (estimated sale of the land was for £2 million ' but the football club has a very long lease which explains the relatively small amount of money for such a large plot). 'Under the land transfer, however, the agreement was that the London Borough of Harrow would pay the London Borough of Camden half of the value it received, plus 4 percentage points above the Co-operative bank base rate, if the site were to be sold before 2041. Here we are in 2017 and the site has been sold, but I understand that the London Borough of Camden has not received a penny piece.' ' Bob Blackman

My questions are as follows:

1 - can you provide explicit details of the agreement Harrow made with Camden Council regarding the prospective sale of Prince Edwards Playing Fields (PEPF)?

This document is publicly available from the Land Registry and as such is exempt as per (Section 21 – information already reasonably accessible) of the Freedom of Information Act: Please refer to the weblink: https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... d-registry

Section 21(2)(a) states that information may be regarded as reasonably accessible to the applicant “even though it is accessible only on payment”.


2 - can you advise the exact amount that is due to L.B Camden under this agreement?

Please refer to the document held by the Land Registry as per question 1.

3 - can you advise if Camden has received the monies Bob Blackman has claimed is due to them?

No. The Council’s position is that nothing is due pursuant to the document.

4 - if not, can you advise if Camden has attempted to reclaim this money from L.B Harrow to date and when it will be paid?

Yes, but please see the above reply as to the Council’s position.


I hope that this information is of some help to you.

Please note that the information contained in this reply is believed to be accurate as at todays date (unless otherwise indicated) but no guarantee is given.

Further, Harrow Council does not accept liability for any loss, injury or damage which arises from the use of the information contained in this reply either by you or by any other party.
So, does anyone know if a) you can simply fob off like this in a FOI request or b) if anyone has access to free land registry searches?

Quite simply the council are denying that what Bob said is correct.
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rudebwoyben
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 284682Post rudebwoyben »

There are certain exemptions that apply when responding to a FOI request. IIRC these relate to if the information requested is publicly available anyway (which is relevant to this case), regards information intended for future publication (possibly relevant), regards research information and if the information requested could be seen to prejudice the defence of the UK, affects the effectiveness of the security agencies, relations between the UK government and the devolved bodies, the economy (which is not relevant in this case!). Additionally information can be withheld if deemed commercially sensitive (possibly relevant).
Requests can be refused if the question is considered to have already been asked by the same person, is considered vexatious or would be too costly to answer.
wearebees
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 284684Post wearebees »

Land reg isn't free. It's normally £4 per record I believe. My company has an account (happy to use to try search though I'd need the address/postcode) and even then it costs them £4 every time I search freehold info on land reg.
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 284693Post MCB »

rudebwoyben wrote:There are certain exemptions that apply when responding to a FOI request.

IIRC these relate to if the information requested is publicly available anyway (which is relevant to this case), regards information intended for future publication (possibly relevant), regards research information and if the information requested could be seen to prejudice the defence of the UK, affects the effectiveness of the security agencies, relations between the UK government and the devolved bodies, the economy (which is not relevant in this case!). Additionally information can be withheld if deemed commercially sensitive (possibly relevant).

Requests can be refused if the question is considered to have already been asked by the same person, is considered vexatious or would be too costly to answer.
Yup - however, there were delays whilst this went to Harrow's senior lawyer - and the response - "search yourself" makes me annoyed as they would have had the answers in front of them - it's like they are placing obstacles in the path.
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MCB
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Re: The Hive to be discussed in the House of Commons

Post: # 284694Post MCB »

wearebees wrote:Land reg isn't free. It's normally £4 per record I believe. My company has an account (happy to use to try search though I'd need the address/postcode) and even then it costs them £4 every time I search freehold info on land reg.
That would be amazing if you could - it would be the Hive's postcode - HA8 6AG

ILEA was disbanded in 1990 -but the land was transferred over in 2001. so the date would have been around then I expect?
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