Poppies

[rudebwoyben]

Clubs only started wearing poppies on their shirts in about 2005 (Leicester did it first in 2004). It was part of the militarisation of British society that followed the Iraq War (along with other pro-war stuff like getting ex-soldiers to become teachers, creating Armed Forces Day, flushing the air with adverts about how great life in the army is, and rolling out CCF groups into schools). It was a reaction to the unpopularity of the Iraq War and has very little to do with remembrance. It's more about glorifying soldiers, and normalising war through crass slogans like soldiers are 'heroes' and they're somehow 'protecting us' - quietly forgetting all the people they kill, the countries they destroy, the oil they help to steal, and the billions of pounds they make for arms dealers and bankers.

I'm all for remembrance, but for this we need to remember how terrible war is, how nasty soldiers' actions can be, how overpowering propaganda can be, and how our so-called enemies are often more like us than the leaders on both sides who send people off to die. We need to remember the innocent victims of war, on both sides, the cost to animals and the environment, and the enemies' soldiers too. For this a white poppy is much better than a red poppy, but personally I think we should keep the politics out of football. Football should be an escape from politics and every day life.

This is definitely the case when you compare how Remembrance Day was observed back in the 80s when we actually did have much more of an active military threat against us.

[hoofer2]

The purpose of the red poppy fund is to raise funds for servicemen and veterans who need help after leaving the forces, both mentally and physically. It is a real shame that the Royal British Legion's poppy fund has been hijacked and politicised, as the meaning behind the fund has been forgotten in some cases with "pro War rhetoric". The "poppy" bandwagon has resulted in many companies creating poppies for commercial profit that do not contribute the RBL funds. This is a seasonal fund, and do not have all year round visibility that others do.

Each poppy purchased is to raise funds to ensure that all those individuals struggling in active service or after leaving active service are supported. The physical and mental scars can be horrific and it can be extremely difficult to transition back to "normal life" and finding an alternative vocation etc.

The actions of the servicemen in World World 2 protected the freedom of Europe and in UK in particular the freedom of speech to be able to express opposite views without fear of persecution. Those who contributed deserve to be wrapped in gold and looked after. I do not "agree" with war, and the UKs subsequent meddling in the affairs of other countries can be brought to task, but at the same time the individuals who are casualties need to be supported. So buy a red poppy to support the broken individuals that are the casualties and keep your protests against the politicians making the decisions.

[becbee]

personally I think we should keep the politics out of football. Football should be an escape from politics and every day life.

Why make your political statement on a football forum then?

It's a political thread, about a political issue, which features a lot of political sentiment. I just wanted to add some balance to the discussion.

It wasn't a political thread until you decided to attempt to make it into one.

[Dave H]

Well said Hoofer2. No sane person thinks War is anything but terrible. Some (e.g. WWII) were entirely justified, some weren't. Service people, in Britain at least, don't start them or get to choose which they will serve in. They do have to fight them and live with the scars, physical or mental, afterwards. They have earned our respect and support.

[antbfc]

Well said Hoofer2. No sane person thinks War is anything but terrible. Some (e.g. WWII) were entirely justified, some weren't. Service people, in Britain at least, don't start them or get to choose which they will serve in. They do have to fight them and live with the scars, physical or mental, afterwards. They have earned our respect and support.

Surely post conscription they do get to chose which war they serve in?

Pre-conscription I agree, these were ordinary men put in extraordinary circumstances. Post-conscription this is a voluntary decision to fight wherever you're told no matter the cost or reason?

[bloosdad1]

Joss, I believe it was the Duke of Wellington (But I could be wrong) that said, "I don't agree with a single word you say, but I will fight to my death for you to have the right to say it". I accept not all of these men and women died for that reason, but many did. It is remembrance of those people that a red poppy is worn.

[BEEGONE]

Joss, I believe it was the Duke of Wellington (But I could be wrong) that said, "I don't agree with a single word you say, but I will fight to my death for you to have the right to say it". I accept not all of these men and women died for that reason, but many did. It is remembrance of those people that a red poppy is worn.

Evelyn Beatrice Hall under the pen name S. G. Tallentyre

Apparently there is some debate about if he wrote it as well.

[To bee or not to bee]

In Flanders Field
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie,
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

by John McCrae 1915

We will remember them. Great the club is letting the Armed Forces in for free Saturday. Colchester being a Garrison Town will make it special.

[hoppy]

I've often wondered whether pacifists buy poppies?

[rudebwoyben]

I've often wondered whether pacifists buy poppies?

I think some would buy white poppies, although that itself is not without controversy.

[hoofer2]

I am all for efforts about maintaining world peace and all for supporting all affected by war.

However the "White Poppy" does not directly benefit the casualties not covered by the Legion. Much better to give money to
aid agencies and support: Red Cross / Crescent, UNICEF, MSF, Oxfam, Mind, SCOPE etc.

I personally would not buy a white poppy as it does NOT directly raise money for any affected, and feel there is a general perception it does.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/whitepoppy/01white_faq.html

Compare this to the red poppy where the message is clear - it supports the families.

http://britishlegion.org.uk.web3.tempor ... 1510048547

[ealingbee84]

I am all for efforts about maintaining world peace and all for supporting all affected by war.

However the "White Poppy" does not directly benefit the casualties not covered by the Legion. Much better to give money to
aid agencies and support: Red Cross / Crescent, UNICEF, MSF, Oxfam, Mind, SCOPE etc.

I personally would not buy a white poppy as it does NOT directly raise money for any affected, and feel there is a general perception it does.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/whitepoppy/01white_faq.html

Compare this to the red poppy where the message is clear - it supports the families.

http://britishlegion.org.uk.web3.tempor ... 1510048547

I didn't realise white poppies didn't donate to those (and their families) hurt in war. The white poppy is obviously a political symbol but they try and justify it by saying the red one is too, when really it isn't but people try and make it one. It comments on milliatary budgets being high. I work with some people who were injured in the army being forced to leave. The military gives them a decent pension and funds of up to £10,000 to educate yourself to get a new job.

[ealingbee84]

Well said Hoofer2. No sane person thinks War is anything but terrible. Some (e.g. WWII) were entirely justified, some weren't. Service people, in Britain at least, don't start them or get to choose which they will serve in. They do have to fight them and live with the scars, physical or mental, afterwards. They have earned our respect and support.

Surely post conscription they do get to chose which war they serve in?

Not really, they can sign up in peace time and a war comes along while their are in their 2 or 3 year minimum, if they are told to go they go whether they support the cause or not.

[antbfc]

Well said Hoofer2. No sane person thinks War is anything but terrible. Some (e.g. WWII) were entirely justified, some weren't. Service people, in Britain at least, don't start them or get to choose which they will serve in. They do have to fight them and live with the scars, physical or mental, afterwards. They have earned our respect and support.

Surely post conscription they do get to chose which war they serve in?

Not really, they can sign up in peace time and a war comes along while their are in their 2 or 3 year minimum, if they are told to go they go whether they support the cause or not.

Exactly, so you sign up knowing you will be sent to fight regardless of the cause. You go in knowing the risks and knowing you will fight whoever wherever if told to.

Only point I was trying to make.

[kingpinfid]

The White Poppy is a very useful symbol. It allows everyone else to identify massive knob heads and give them a wide berth.

I hope that more snowflakes go out, buy white poppies and wear them prominently.