TK "Never Again"

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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby ninestein » 09 Feb 2018, 20:23

When we're having a tough time of it, i sometimes think to myself... "why can't we just be like your average league 2 club"? Sometimes it feels like we try to over-do things with our setup. But when it works, and yes, sometimes it does, ifeel immensely proud. But right now i dread going into work on Monday mornings having lost. Surely a win has to be on the cards soon?

As for the chairman, im a big admirer of what TK has built at the Hive. As a father who attends with his daughter, the comfort of the place allows me to bring her and I'm grateful for that. I just wish we could have a bit more excitement on the pitch.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby #Beebot » 09 Feb 2018, 20:29

Appreciate that the negativity is pissing everyone off. The trouble is that there's little else to talk about as pretty much every decision made by the club over the past few months has been catastrophic and the setup is looking more chaotic than ever.

I've never really been pessimistic about the future of the club but a major change in approach is needed from TK if we are going to have any future in this league for the next few years. Promotion hopes from the NL are fairly slim without ending the current backroom structure.

Never previously felt that we've had fundamental problems at the club, but from what I've seen on the pitch and heard on here it certainly seems that not everyone with power at the club is pulling in the same direction.

I don't buy any conspiracy theories, but in my view this is the biggest set of problems we've had under TK's tenure and there doesn't seem to be any clear endgame or way out of this mess.

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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby foxy » 09 Feb 2018, 20:42

Top Post Nik.. Pretty sure you have left X-Bumble lost for words!!!

I blame the progress of the internet, you can now even watch Barnet games at the comfort of your own home, via ifollow :D

But I doubt he even bothers to do that!
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby beew » 09 Feb 2018, 21:28

ape1968 wrote:
Tuesds wrote:As owner and Chairman, Kleanthous is ultimately responsible for the club's fortunes. We're 7 points adrift from safety at the bottom of the league, so he's going to get criticised. Personally, I think he made a critical mistake when he brought McGhee in over Eames's head, without consulting him or, if he did, without winning his agreement first. Bringing in an experienced, high profile figure to help guide an inexperienced manager at a time of crisis was a logical thing to do... but not without that manager's approval, and as we know it precipitated Eames's resignation and gave us two months with a manager who didn't want to be doing the job - and it showed.

Lots of other things have been said here, with reasonable views on all sides... BUT, three things get my proverbial goat:

1. Why do people see conspiracies or malign motives everywhere? I mean, Kleanthous tying the division's best striker (and the club) to a very expensive 3 year deal when most clubs would have cashed in long ago was a definite misstep in his plot to return the team to the Conference so he can run the team more cheaply and concentrate on oh my god it's so ridiculous I can't even finish this bit.

We are clearly spending vastly more on the playing staff than ever before in our history, in real terms. That's a fact. It's been badly spent in many instances, without question, but there are cheaper and more effective ways of purposefully neglecting the footballing side of a football club!

2. This notion that 'TK promised us we'd be challenging/we'd never struggle again..." Good grief. At the start of the season, there are 23 clubs who are confident they won't struggle. Our last three seasons have seen us win the Conference title and then twice finish comfortably in mid table in League 2. These have been followed by a season of severe struggle, and we all hate that. But if your response to it is 'TK promised me this couldn't happen' (he didn't), you might want to reassess things.

3. All this 'I've finally had enough' stuff... If people want to spend their own time and money on something other than following Barnet FC, that is their choice. But this idea that we have somehow had it particularly bad over the last 20 years often goes unchallenged here, and it's peculiar to me.

The four straight years of relegation battles are often trotted out, so as a modicum of counter-balance, once in a while perhaps it's worth recalling just a few of the other features of this period of supposed misery such as winning two Conference league titles, making the play-offs, two club-record FA Cup runs, going to Old Trafford (and the AMEX and St Andrews and Molinuex and Elland Road and the Liberty Stadium and more...), and enjoying thrillingly talented players turning out for our club, such as Currie, Bailey, Puncheon, Adomah, Bolasie, Davids (!), Villa and Akinde, alongside modern-day club heroes such as Harrison, Yakubu, Yiadom and more.

In other words, I'm proud of my club, and I'll still be proud of it if we go down to non league. Where, of course, this club has spent over 80% of its history.

Throughout this period, how much time have we spent at the same level as clubs with smaller support bases than us? Even in the Conference, supposedly medium-sized clubs such as Chester, Aldershot and Woking always get bigger home crowds than us when we're playing at the same level. If we should all be 'embarrassed' by our 'disgraceful' club, how should they feel about the fact that we are always or nearly always sat above them in the football pyramid?

Unless you support a club financed by Emirati oil wealth, you aren't going to win everything every year. And even then you might lose occasionally to the club funded by the Russian Oligarch. Every other club wins some and, more often, fails to win some.


Good post Tuesds but just one point that I'd like to make. And one that gets my "proverbial goat". The background is that I am proud of my club, and am pretty much unrelentingly positive in my support at games. But a lot of the "negative" posts have come from people who go to most if not all of the games and have been doing so for several years. Now - to be clear - I will not say that someone who goes to more games is more of a fan than others, or a better fan, or a more loyal fan or cares about the club better. I know fans who live thousands of miles away and care deeply about or BFC. That's not the point.

The point though is that going to the games and feeling the pain from afar is not the same. Those who attend (and I'm talking about week in week out, Conference or League Two, year after year) spend a lot of money and a whole a lot of time. They give up their holiday days from work to make Tuesday nights, they get up knackered on Wednesday mornings, they deal with the A38 and the M4 both being closed on the way back from Plymouth, stroppy stewards, traffic jams etc. etc. They go to a lot of effort, significant expense and thousands of miles of travel. I'm not looking for violins to be playing in the background here - everybody always has a choice. No one is forced to do it. They're all grown-ups they could make a different decision each week. I'm not asking for any sympathy for them. But it is a different experience. It is harder - much harder - than watching the results online. When we are constantly losing it feels very hard and very relentless and very effing annoying when you think that some players don't really care or that some manager who thinks he knows it all is going to make all the same mistakes the last one did while you stand there knowing how it's going to end. If you have been a home-and-away regular in the last ten years then most of those years have been pretty bleak. If John Erroll says he's not going to Yeovil on Tuesday, if his mate Andrew has stopped going - it's not because they're negative or defeatist. It's because they're being ground down by the endless survival battles and the thousands of miles they go through to watch them. My son - who can't remember a time when he wasn't going to watch Barnet and who deals with all the plastic Premiership pseudo-fans at his school put it pretty well a few years ago "I don't care about watching a team that wins all the time - but it's hard watching one that loses every week". Mansfield on Saturday was pretty fucking dire on every count. Most of the 79 people who were there were those who fall into the every week for every year category. They probably deserve better.

We keep the faith - we continue to support. But sometimes you just want to say "it shouldn't be this hard".



I hope Westley prints this and posts it on the dressing room walls before tomorrows game. Spoken from the heart.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby Norfolkbee » 09 Feb 2018, 21:35

The one clear message coming out of all variety of posts on here is that TK must sort the football side of things out once and for all. Get this right and 80% of the moans and bitching will stop. Sure there are people who will never accept playing at THL and I'm sorry they feel that way. I miss many historic and quirky things about Underhill, but these don't pay the bills.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby dawat » 10 Feb 2018, 11:49

When I saw the title of his post I decided to just sit back and read all the comments and not get involved. As I'm sure many of you will appreciate that's not my usual approach on most topics. Can I say that just reading your comments I can feel the pain and anger that you so obviously felt when you wrote those comments. Some of them are really powerful in their sincerity. Well written guys!
I hope that our chairman, management team and players read what has been written by their 'fans'. Especially those long serving fans who now seem totally disillusioned by what they have paid and travelled to watch. Barnet FC is it unreasonable to expect a professional football club to actually do what thy are paid for? To actually show they are professionals who fully understnd what they are employed for and have pride in doing it well?
How would our Barnet FC professionals feel if they employed an experienced team of craftsmen to refurbish their home. A place they care about and invested their precious time and hard earned money in. How would they feel if every time they opened the door to their home they were met with the wrong wall removed, incorrect flooring, wrong paint colours, lights badly fitted, doors not closing properly, taps leaking, heating not working, etc etc etc. Would anyone at Barnet FC put up with that in room after room at their home or would they question the competence and professionalism of the craftsmen they had employed?
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby To bee or not to bee » 10 Feb 2018, 12:01

dawat wrote:When I saw the title of his post I decided to just sit back and read all the comments and not get involved. As I'm sure many of you will appreciate that's not my usual approach on most topics. Can I say that just reading your comments I can feel the pain and anger that you so obviously felt when you wrote those comments. Some of them are really powerful in their sincerity. Well written guys!
I hope that our chairman, management team and players read what has been written by their 'fans'. Especially those long serving fans who now seem totally disillusioned by what they have paid and travelled to watch. Barnet FC is it unreasonable to expect a professional football club to actually do what thy are paid for? To actually show they are professionals who fully understnd what they are employed for and have pride in doing it well?
How would our Barnet FC professionals feel if they employed an experienced team of craftsmen to refurbish their home. A place they care about and invested their precious time and hard earned money in. How would they feel if every time they opened the door to their home they were met with the wrong wall removed, incorrect flooring, wrong paint colours, lights badly fitted, doors not closing properly, taps leaking, heating not working, etc etc etc. Would anyone at Barnet FC put up with that in room after room at their home or would they question the competence and professionalism of the craftsmen they had employed?

Not been following Barnet as long as some but been feeling like that since the Wycombe game. Don’t know what the cause was but that is when the rot seemed to set in. Lets hope Westley can turn it around. I know people don’t like him but no good blaming him. The fault lies with Eames not making sure the team was fit enough to last a full game. Despite all the sports science stuff. And throwing his toys out of the pram when TK tried to give him the support EVERYONE said he needed.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby #Beebot » 10 Feb 2018, 12:57

To bee or not to bee wrote:
dawat wrote:When I saw the title of his post I decided to just sit back and read all the comments and not get involved. As I'm sure many of you will appreciate that's not my usual approach on most topics. Can I say that just reading your comments I can feel the pain and anger that you so obviously felt when you wrote those comments. Some of them are really powerful in their sincerity. Well written guys!
I hope that our chairman, management team and players read what has been written by their 'fans'. Especially those long serving fans who now seem totally disillusioned by what they have paid and travelled to watch. Barnet FC is it unreasonable to expect a professional football club to actually do what thy are paid for? To actually show they are professionals who fully understnd what they are employed for and have pride in doing it well?
How would our Barnet FC professionals feel if they employed an experienced team of craftsmen to refurbish their home. A place they care about and invested their precious time and hard earned money in. How would they feel if every time they opened the door to their home they were met with the wrong wall removed, incorrect flooring, wrong paint colours, lights badly fitted, doors not closing properly, taps leaking, heating not working, etc etc etc. Would anyone at Barnet FC put up with that in room after room at their home or would they question the competence and professionalism of the craftsmen they had employed?

Not been following Barnet as long as some but been feeling like that since the Wycombe game. Don’t know what the cause was but that is when the rot seemed to set in. Lets hope Westley can turn it around. I know people don’t like him but no good blaming him. The fault lies with Eames not making sure the team was fit enough to last a full game. Despite all the sports science stuff. And throwing his toys out of the pram when TK tried to give him the support EVERYONE said he needed.


Bringing in McGhee is hardly supporting the guy, given MM's known incompetence.

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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby ninestein » 10 Feb 2018, 13:01

I think Rossi had had enough anyway, regardless of whether McGhee arrived or not.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby alexbach » 10 Feb 2018, 13:06

ninestein wrote:I think Rossi had had enough anyway, regardless of whether McGhee arrived or not.
Well written daw at. The chairman may consider a mea cupla.his q and a prompted more questions than answers

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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby alexbach » 10 Feb 2018, 13:13

alexbach wrote:
ninestein wrote:I think Rossi had had enough anyway, regardless of whether McGhee arrived or not.
Well written daw at. The chairman may consider a mea cupla.his q and a prompted more questions than answers

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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby Norfolk & Chance » 10 Feb 2018, 13:19

It's pissing down and it's cold.
I'll have to take my flask of rum :-)

BUT, it's Saturday and when 3pm comes.........................
See you all there fellow Bees lunatics !!

:-)
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby Norfolkbee » 10 Feb 2018, 13:20

Did Rossi really want the job in the first place? He never came across in his manner as being that bright young manager, who was eager to grab his chance with both hands. I'm certainly not convinced he was first choice for the job at the end of last season. The other candidates must've been a pretty poor bunch if he was. I believe that TK had somebody lined up who knocked him back late on. It has to be remembered that experienced managers like Justin Edinburgh and even Westley were out of work at that time.
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Re: TK "Never Again"

Postby rudebwoyben » 10 Feb 2018, 13:54

Norfolk & Chance wrote:It's pissing down and it's cold.
I'll have to take my flask of rum :-)

BUT, it's Saturday and when 3pm comes.........................
See you all there fellow Bees lunatics !!

:-)


Me and you both! Drink2:
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Re: TK

Postby RichardM » 10 Feb 2018, 19:00

#Beebot wrote:Appreciate that the negativity is pissing everyone off. The trouble is that there's little else to talk about as pretty much every decision made by the club over the past few months has been catastrophic and the setup is looking more chaotic than ever.

I've never really been pessimistic about the future of the club but a major change in approach is needed from TK if we are going to have any future in this league for the next few years. Promotion hopes from the NL are fairly slim without ending the current backroom structure.

Never previously felt that we've had fundamental problems at the club, but from what I've seen on the pitch and heard on here it certainly seems that not everyone with power at the club is pulling in the same direction.

I don't buy any conspiracy theories, but in my view this is the biggest set of problems we've had under TK's tenure and there doesn't seem to be any clear endgame or way out of this mess.

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