Where have the crowds gone

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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby mcleod23 » 20 Sep 2019, 10:00

If the c.1,000 supporters that we've broadly got for the last two home games, all committed to going right, we all bring a mate along for the Solihull game, it's easily doable. We've achieved it in the past (with ticket help) but it shouldn't be that hard to drive an extra 500 through the gate. That would in itself make a huge difference to the Hive on matchday.

If the club supported this and made a big thing of it by giving a free ticket to each season ticket holder, you achieve your short term target. Yes it's not sustainable long term but a short term home boost with support will surely be a good thing?

For me everyone has to pull in the same direction, make it a thing for that Solihull game to get a previous Bee, new supporter or mate to the game. Everyone could do that.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby pauln50 » 20 Sep 2019, 12:07

As a stayaway supporter myself I will say why after being a season ticket holder at the Hive for the first three years I have been restricting myself to only a few matches each season. Lots of reasons and some might be shared by others, some might not.
1.Ill health, not a great excuse as I managed all but one game in my last membership season when I was seriously ill. Much better now so why am I not coming?
2.Years of underperforming have made me stop and think, do I really want to subject myself to the torment again? what seemed obvious to supporters just didn't sink in to TK and some of the awful managers we have had.
3. the embarrassment factor of the yoyo that was MA and the fear that he might return.
4. the distance and price. Do I really want a 100 mile round trip?
5. I have started watching local no-league teams over the last three years, mostly Kempston Rovers (Izale Macloud plays here), Bedford Town and Biggleswade where I can have a laugh watching KMB's brothers decline. Long story but basically he married a distant cousin then dumped her). I can get into all these grounds for either four or five pounds, important now I have retired and all do a drinkable cup of tea for £1 and at Bedford a slice of bread pudding for 20P. It's like the clock has gone back 40 years, yet the football is still a surprisingly good standard.
This year I have not yet been although I have listened to commentaries when I can or kept an eye on the scores on Saturdays. I will be coming soon, now that we seem to have a decent side despite injuries, and it's good that we have got the striker we have been promised for a long time. (glory hunter or what?). I hear the tea hut has even improved, is the tea drinkable now?
Hopefully see you all soon
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby BeeBoi1980 » 20 Sep 2019, 12:38

There's loads wrong with the club, and some of the quick wins not addressed frustrate me no end (yes I know it's not on the playing side but FFS just pre pour the beers)!

There's also plenty that's good about the club, facilities, financial health etc.

Now, Barnet despite our proud history weren't much of a club until Barry Fry came along, not in the way we know the club today anyway. He worked with a basket case chairman, we had zero stability and we were in our (beloved) ramshackle ground. OK there was some creative accounting that helped us achieve success, but ultimately what made us into a bigger and more successful club was that we had one guy who understood what it took to create a club. Not a team, a club. He pulled the whole thing together.

We have had plenty of good and poor people in charge since Barry Fry. But we MIGHT for the first time in a long time have someone in charge who gets it, who gets us, and who can influence ALL areas of the club. The game has changed a lot since the Fry days, but Darren appears to understand the juggling act required in the current environment.

Things aren't always going to be rosy, and the fans appreciate Darren's honest updates. I assume the recent silence from the chairman is partially down to the fact that Darren is involved in the financial and strategic side, and so he is able to update us there. He also seems to get that players are people, and treat them as such. He is realistic about the division. He is implementing a style. He trusts youth. He knows what he wants (Barham who I rate isn't playing, seemingly Darren doesn't want him right now, which is sad for the individual, but shows the manager trusts his own judgement). I also don't doubt that Darren has an idea that the marketing arm of the club has a lot of work to do.

You could probably carry on serving p*ss in the bars, charge what you want for admission, have a broken scoreboard and employ heavy handed stewarding, but if Darren is the right man, and he builds something here similar to the Accrington and Lincoln success stories of late, the crappy bits won't seem as big a deal. And people will come back.

One successful season won't do it, but I genuinely think if we can get 4 or 5 seasons from Darren he could well be the one to take us on a decent journey. But that's not to say TK shouldn't be tweaking a few things here and there in the meantime.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby Masuka » 20 Sep 2019, 12:41

Everyone seems to be writing essays on this subject. Why?

There is one reason only: the correlation between good football and attendance is linear.

DC is getting things going in the right direction but we need to get back in the League and then a few seasons of at least play-off level football for a decent regular crowd to establish itself.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby hoofer2 » 20 Sep 2019, 12:44

BeeBoi1980 wrote:There's loads wrong with the club, and some of the quick wins not addressed frustrate me no end (yes I know it's not on the playing side but FFS just pre pour the beers)!

There's also plenty that's good about the club, facilities, financial health etc.

Now, Barnet despite our proud history weren't much of a club until Barry Fry came along, not in the way we know the club today anyway. He worked with a basket case chairman, we had zero stability and we were in our (beloved) ramshackle ground. OK there was some creative accounting that helped us achieve success, but ultimately what made us into a bigger and more successful club was that we had one guy who understood what it took to create a club. Not a team, a club. He pulled the whole thing together.

We have had plenty of good and poor people in charge since Barry Fry. But we MIGHT for the first time in a long time have someone in charge who gets it, who gets us, and who can influence ALL areas of the club. The game has changed a lot since the Fry days, but Darren appears to understand the juggling act required in the current environment.

Things aren't always going to be rosy, and the fans appreciate Darren's honest updates. I assume the recent silence from the chairman is partially down to the fact that Darren is involved in the financial and strategic side, and so he is able to update us there. He also seems to get that players are people, and treat them as such. He is realistic about the division. He is implementing a style. He trusts youth. He knows what he wants (Barham who I rate isn't playing, seemingly Darren doesn't want him right now, which is sad for the individual, but shows the manager trusts his own judgement). I also don't doubt that Darren has an idea that the marketing arm of the club has a lot of work to do.

You could probably carry on serving p*ss in the bars, charge what you want for admission, have a broken scoreboard and employ heavy handed stewarding, but if Darren is the right man, and he builds something here similar to the Accrington and Lincoln success stories of late, the crappy bits won't seem as big a deal. And people will come back.

One successful season won't do it, but I genuinely think if we can get 4 or 5 seasons from Darren he could well be the one to take us on a decent journey. But that's not to say TK shouldn't be tweaking a few things here and there in the meantime.


Exactly this. In a nutshell if you are successful on the pitch, you are completely pre-occupied with the the football itself and don't have time to complain about off pitch issues.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby john dockers shorts » 20 Sep 2019, 13:03

Couldn't agree more... Its taken season for support to drop off. It will take sustained success not always winning cups and leagues but challenging and playing de cent football to rebuild.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby aclassman » 20 Sep 2019, 13:15

I was a season ticket holder for many years and even after we moved to the Hive I continued till 2 year ago.
To me its the lack of atmosphere that is driving supporters away and not necessarily the ticket price or the football being played as that has improved a lot under DC.
Some fans moan about all these extra fans that turn up for the big games like Sheffield away and Brentford at home.
Well yes those fans do pick and choose games but these games are the ones with an atmosphere.
To get the crowds back, then TK needs somehow to create an atmosphere but I don't know how that's possible to do.
Maybe a band behind the goal like the FA have at every game.
We miss the drummer and the old east terrace and that's killed the crowd off more than the football or moving to edgeware has
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby hoofer2 » 20 Sep 2019, 13:53

aclassman wrote:I was a season ticket holder for many years and even after we moved to the Hive I continued till 2 year ago.
To me its the lack of atmosphere that is driving supporters away and not necessarily the ticket price or the football being played as that has improved a lot under DC.
Some fans moan about all these extra fans that turn up for the big games like Sheffield away and Brentford at home.
Well yes those fans do pick and choose games but these games are the ones with an atmosphere.
To get the crowds back, then TK needs somehow to create an atmosphere but I don't know how that's possible to do.
Maybe a band behind the goal like the FA have at every game.
We miss the drummer and the old east terrace and that's killed the crowd off more than the football or moving to edgeware has


NB The drummer couldn't drum, though would take the Aldershot drummer.
The atmosphere at the HIve has been one of inflated expectation with inevitable disappointment. Perhaps this year it's started with inevitable disappointment (primary focus on not having a number '9')
whereas Currie is now bringing some inflated expectation L)

We'll never recreate the "Barry Fry era" again as football has changed, and that was over 25 years ago !!!!
And if we analyse our fanbase, I bet you the recruitment of new fans ground to a halt when we at Underhill and we are gradually losing the regular core week on week.

It's a hard sell these days for me to persuade my boys to come to watch Barnet. The rhetoric of the Premier League and Champions League inferring other football is less exciting
and the playground glory hunters play a big part of this. It's the younger generations that have to bee attracted to watch Barnet as they are the future.

Success on the pitch with community incentives is the only way to fill the gap from the sadly departing regulars.

I have wondered for a couple of seasons now if playing some games on Sundays may attract a bigger crowd given the Jewish community living in the area.
The atmosphere at the Palace PSF was great because of their attendance.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby hoofer2 » 20 Sep 2019, 13:53

aclassman wrote:I was a season ticket holder for many years and even after we moved to the Hive I continued till 2 year ago.
To me its the lack of atmosphere that is driving supporters away and not necessarily the ticket price or the football being played as that has improved a lot under DC.
Some fans moan about all these extra fans that turn up for the big games like Sheffield away and Brentford at home.
Well yes those fans do pick and choose games but these games are the ones with an atmosphere.
To get the crowds back, then TK needs somehow to create an atmosphere but I don't know how that's possible to do.
Maybe a band behind the goal like the FA have at every game.
We miss the drummer and the old east terrace and that's killed the crowd off more than the football or moving to edgeware has


NB The drummer couldn't drum, though would take the Aldershot drummer.
The atmosphere at the HIve has been one of inflated expectation with inevitable disappointment. Perhaps this year it's started with inevitable disappointment (primary focus on not having a number '9')
whereas Currie is now bringing some inflated expectation L)

We'll never recreate the "Barry Fry era" again as football has changed, and that was over 25 years ago !!!!
And if we analyse our fanbase, I bet you the recruitment of new fans ground to a halt when we at Underhill and we are gradually losing the regular core week on week.

It's a hard sell these days for me to persuade my boys to come to watch Barnet. The rhetoric of the Premier League and Champions League inferring other football is less exciting
and the playground glory hunters play a big part of this. It's the younger generations that have to bee attracted to watch Barnet as they are the future.

Success on the pitch with community incentives is the only way to fill the gap from the sadly departing regulars.

I have wondered for a couple of seasons now if playing some games on Sundays may attract a bigger crowd given the Jewish community living in the area.
The atmosphere at the Palace PSF was great because of their attendance.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby NoMagRyan » 20 Sep 2019, 14:35

Masuka wrote:Everyone seems to be writing essays on this subject. Why?

There is one reason only: the correlation between good football and attendance is linear.

DC is getting things going in the right direction but we need to get back in the League and then a few seasons of at least play-off level football for a decent regular crowd to establish itself.


Pretty much
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby pauln50 » 20 Sep 2019, 17:35

Masuka wrote:Everyone seems to be writing essays on this subject. Why?

There is one reason only: the correlation between good football and attendance is linear.

DC is getting things going in the right direction but we need to get back in the League and then a few seasons of at least play-off level football for a decent regular crowd to establish itself.


Sorry about that. Hardly essays but I just assumed many of the people on this forum had longer attention spans than your average goldfish. Perhaps that's why we never saw the naked run. Got to the high street , stripped off then forgot why you were there I suppose.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby ninestein » 20 Sep 2019, 18:46

I reckon it's been a good few months since the "Naked Run" was brought into conversation. Must be some sort of record. Maybe one day we could turn it into a film with Leslie Nielson in it, as Lieutenant Frank Drebin goes on the hunt for the elusive crowd theives...
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby To bee or not to bee » 20 Sep 2019, 21:03

#Beebot wrote:
Tuesds wrote:
To bee or not to bee wrote: Although he loves Barnet FC I blame TK. He took his eye off the ball with the ridiculous ill conceived Pecking Order project. £600,000 squandered and what is there to show for it. A brick wall in the bar. :spite: If he’d spent half that on the team we might not have been relegated. It makes my blood boil.



Clearly Pecking Order was a failure, but if it makes you feel any better, it surely won’t have been the case that the chairman had £600k burning a hole in his pocket and chose between spending it on players and spending it on buttermilk battered chicken.

The money invested in Pecking Order once would have been intended to bring in more money overall on an ongoing basis. In other words, to enable us to have a bigger annual playing budget and hence a better team. No, it didn’t work in the case of Pecking Order, but it has with other facilities at The Hive.

Also, we spent loads on the team for the relegation season. We’d been on a huge splurge in the January before and still had most of those players. morecambe manager Jim Bentley even moaned that he was having to compete with moneybags clubs like Barnet, giving us as the one specific example who weren’t competing on a level playing field because of all the money we spent!

Then in the pre-season brought in big signings who were a clear step up in quality from those made in earlier pre-seasons,like Coulthirst, Brindley and of course Tarpey. There were a lot of reasons why we got relegated, and a lot of mistakes were made. I don’t think general scrimping on the squad was one of them.


TK claimed we had a top half budget that season. The big problem was injuries, failing to get the Fuad Sule deal over the line in August (and why did we seem to prioritise Malakai Mars?), the awful appointment of McGhee and holding onto him for far too long, the backroom mess with Thorne and later McGhee, refusing to appoint Allen at Christmas when he sensibly told TK that we were in a relegation battle but TK genuinely still thought we could make the playoffs, appointing Westley, Westley's shocking January transfer business (Nicholson etc) - the list goes on.


Yes as I said a shambles. Because TK took his eye off the ball with the Pecking Order debacle so the correct footballing decision ( sack Rossi and get in Martin Allen)wasn’t taken. Lost his focus and made bad decisions. That’s why we are where we are and is why the crowds have fallen. But agreed let’s focus on the future. Ninesteins suggestion of free tickets for guests for full members is a good one.
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby beesknees99 » 20 Sep 2019, 21:19

hoofer2 wrote:
aclassman wrote:I was a season ticket holder for many years and even after we moved to the Hive I continued till 2 year ago.
To me its the lack of atmosphere that is driving supporters away and not necessarily the ticket price or the football being played as that has improved a lot under DC.
Some fans moan about all these extra fans that turn up for the big games like Sheffield away and Brentford at home.
Well yes those fans do pick and choose games but these games are the ones with an atmosphere.
To get the crowds back, then TK needs somehow to create an atmosphere but I don't know how that's possible to do.
Maybe a band behind the goal like the FA have at every game.
We miss the drummer and the old east terrace and that's killed the crowd off more than the football or moving to edgeware has


NB The drummer couldn't drum, though would take the Aldershot drummer.
The atmosphere at the HIve has been one of inflated expectation with inevitable disappointment. Perhaps this year it's started with inevitable disappointment (primary focus on not having a number '9')
whereas Currie is now bringing some inflated expectation L)

We'll never recreate the "Barry Fry era" again as football has changed, and that was over 25 years ago !!!!
And if we analyse our fanbase, I bet you the recruitment of new fans ground to a halt when we at Underhill and we are gradually losing the regular core week on week.

It's a hard sell these days for me to persuade my boys to come to watch Barnet. The rhetoric of the Premier League and Champions League inferring other football is less exciting
and the playground glory hunters play a big part of this. It's the younger generations that have to bee attracted to watch Barnet as they are the future.

Success on the pitch with community incentives is the only way to fill the gap from the sadly departing regulars.

I have wondered for a couple of seasons now if playing some games on Sundays may attract a bigger crowd given the Jewish community living in the area.
The atmosphere at the Palace PSF was great because of their attendance.


Sorry, which drummer couldn’t drum?
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Re: Where have the crowds gone

Postby #Beebot » 20 Sep 2019, 21:21

To bee or not to bee wrote:
#Beebot wrote:
Tuesds wrote:
To bee or not to bee wrote: Although he loves Barnet FC I blame TK. He took his eye off the ball with the ridiculous ill conceived Pecking Order project. £600,000 squandered and what is there to show for it. A brick wall in the bar. :spite: If he’d spent half that on the team we might not have been relegated. It makes my blood boil.



Clearly Pecking Order was a failure, but if it makes you feel any better, it surely won’t have been the case that the chairman had £600k burning a hole in his pocket and chose between spending it on players and spending it on buttermilk battered chicken.

The money invested in Pecking Order once would have been intended to bring in more money overall on an ongoing basis. In other words, to enable us to have a bigger annual playing budget and hence a better team. No, it didn’t work in the case of Pecking Order, but it has with other facilities at The Hive.

Also, we spent loads on the team for the relegation season. We’d been on a huge splurge in the January before and still had most of those players. morecambe manager Jim Bentley even moaned that he was having to compete with moneybags clubs like Barnet, giving us as the one specific example who weren’t competing on a level playing field because of all the money we spent!

Then in the pre-season brought in big signings who were a clear step up in quality from those made in earlier pre-seasons,like Coulthirst, Brindley and of course Tarpey. There were a lot of reasons why we got relegated, and a lot of mistakes were made. I don’t think general scrimping on the squad was one of them.


TK claimed we had a top half budget that season. The big problem was injuries, failing to get the Fuad Sule deal over the line in August (and why did we seem to prioritise Malakai Mars?), the awful appointment of McGhee and holding onto him for far too long, the backroom mess with Thorne and later McGhee, refusing to appoint Allen at Christmas when he sensibly told TK that we were in a relegation battle but TK genuinely still thought we could make the playoffs, appointing Westley, Westley's shocking January transfer business (Nicholson etc) - the list goes on.


Yes as I said a shambles. Because TK took his eye off the ball with the Pecking Order debacle so the correct footballing decision ( sack Rossi and get in Martin Allen)wasn’t taken. Lost his focus and made bad decisions. That’s why we are where we are and is why the crowds have fallen. But agreed let’s focus on the future. Ninesteins suggestion of free tickets for guests for full members is a good one.


He literally took the time to approach Allen and then rejected him for reasons that had nothing to do with Pecking Order.
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