Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

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Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Moonchild_Bee » 11 Jul 2012, 10:03

The last thing we want to do is take on the new AFC Groundstealer's tag. But there is a lot of disinformation about Wealdstone FC and PEPF.

Ultimately they are very disgruntled that the Hive exists, and that we might move in. I used to pass it everyday on the way to work in Stanmore on the tube and was impressed with the land, then slowly watched it fall into disrepair. I have yet to have anyone say that without Barnet FC, the Hive would at this point not be a rotting piece of metal and an overgrown lawn. Perhaps it says more about Wealdstone fans and owners inability to push through Prince Edwards Playing Fields themselves. But of course we will take the brunt of criticism as The Hive is ultimately what they wanted for themselves.

So with that in mind, here is a (read with an understanding of the bias) article about Wealdstone FC and their legacy...

http://undertheleague.com/2012/07/10/a-brief-history-of-wealdstones-legacy-at-prince-edward-playing-fields/

Also, a link to Wealdstone's forum, and their current thread on PEPF: http://www.wealdstonefc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5161

I've always thought it odd that Wealdstone fans have never sought to communicate with Barnet fans (such as on this forum) about the situation, and appear to be turning it into an us vs them scenario.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby John_c » 11 Jul 2012, 10:30

Moonchild_Bee wrote:The last thing we want to do is take on the new AFC Groundstealer's tag. But there is a lot of disinformation about Wealdstone FC and PEPF.

Ultimately they are very disgruntled that the Hive exists, and that we might move in. I used to pass it everyday on the way to work in Stanmore on the tube and was impressed with the land, then slowly watched it fall into disrepair. I have yet to have anyone say that without Barnet FC, the Hive would at this point not be a rotting piece of metal and an overgrown lawn. Perhaps it says more about Wealdstone fans and owners inability to push through Prince Edwards Playing Fields themselves. But of course we will take the brunt of criticism as The Hive is ultimately what they wanted for themselves.

So with that in mind, here is a (read with an understanding of the bias) article about Wealdstone FC and their legacy...

http://undertheleague.com/2012/07/10/a-brief-history-of-wealdstones-legacy-at-prince-edward-playing-fields/

Also, a link to Wealdstone's forum, and their current thread on PEPF: http://www.wealdstonefc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5161

I've always thought it odd that Wealdstone fans have never sought to communicate with Barnet fans (such as on this forum) about the situation, and appear to be turning it into an us vs them scenario.


I find it hard to sympthaise with them to be honest. They had the opportunity and failed to capitalise on it. Their point now appears to be that they are taking the moral high ground.

No doubt our Trust Directors will have been in touch with them already...
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby GRH » 11 Jul 2012, 10:53

So I understand it correctly, the issue seems to be that they ran out of money, and therefore couldn't afford the site? So they want it left vacant until some point in the future when they can then afford to recommence the work? Whenever that might be.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Hiveoccupier » 11 Jul 2012, 13:48

It seems to me that there is quite a lot of potential symmetry between our aspirations and Wealdstones.

We move to the Hive on a temporary basis while we sort out the 10,000 stadium. We move to the new stadium by 2018 and Wealdstone go to the Hive when their lease at Ruislip Manor ends. It shouldn't be a them and us situation - surely our and their interests are best served by trying to work together and with our respective clubs to help make it happen ?

John C - yes we have talked to people from Wealdstone FC and in line with what we are here to do we will continue to try to expand the relationships the Trust have with other clubs, council officers, the police, community groups, local businesses and anyone else it makes sense to engage with in pursuit of the interests of Barnet FC supporters.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby John_c » 11 Jul 2012, 15:40

Hiveoccupier wrote:
John C - yes we have talked to people from Wealdstone FC and in line with what we are here to do we will continue to try to expand the relationships the Trust have with other clubs, council officers, the police, community groups, local businesses and anyone else it makes sense to engage with in pursuit of the interests of Barnet FC supporters.


What a lucky guess!

No mention of that in your minutes Derek? Makes no sense to me at all that you have been involved in discussion with Wealdstone FC. Unless of course you had an ulterior motive.

What else are you lot doing in OUR name that we don't know about?

I'm sure that all discussions with Councillors at Harrow and Wealdstone have been very supportive of the Club that we support. What do the club think of your actions over this?
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby ninestein » 11 Jul 2012, 15:54

So I wonder whether the Wealdstone supporters will be entering a team into our 7-a-side tournament this weekend...??
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby John_c » 11 Jul 2012, 16:07

Hiveoccupier wrote:
John C - yes we have talked to people from Wealdstone FC and in line with what we are here to do we will continue to try to expand the relationships the Trust have with other clubs, council officers, the police, community groups, local businesses and anyone else it makes sense to engage with in pursuit of the interests of Barnet FC supporters.


What about your relations with Barnet FC? You remember them? What do you deem as in Barnet FC Supporters "interests" with regards to establishing a working relationship with, er, Barnet FC? I would suggest that this is something you concentrate on before you start stirring things, oh sorry, before you have constructive dialogue elsewhere, silly me.

The latest minutes are up (well done on that by the way). You're now going to invite the Leader of Harrow Council to a board meeting? Way to go guys. I'm sure that will be all constructive dialogue as well.

As a member of the Trust I would suggest that any meeting if held should be one allowing members to attend. I'm assuming that the minutes will refelect that meeting as "A discussion was held with the Harrow Council Leader." Informative stuff.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Hiveoccupier » 11 Jul 2012, 17:42

John,

Thank you for taking the time to read the Trust Board minutes. As an avid reader of these documents I am sure you will have noted that we have made regular contact with the club to provide information, advance notice of planned activities, and offers of support and joint working. We will continue to do this in the interests of seeking to build a constructive dialogue that is of benefit to Barnet supporters - an interest of course which has the success of the club we follow at its core.

With regard to contact with Wealdstone FC I'm sorry if you can't see where the shared interest lies. If as seems very likely we are going to move to the Hive on a temporary basis at the start of 2013/14 surely it makes sense for all of us for that move to be as successful as possible for Barnet FC and its supporters. If there is local animosity to our move there it will be less likely that the move is a success - anything we can do to reduce the risk of such animosity has to be helpful don't you think ?

I am pretty sure that Wealdstone FC supporters read Onlybarnet in the same way is we are reading their forum. Reading messages saying it is hard to sympathise with them might not be the greatest contribution that can be made to the development of a harmonious relationship with a community we will come into regular contact with when our first team is playing at the Hive.

For the sake of accuracy the Leader of Harrow Council is Bill Stephenson, Keith Ferry is the portfolio holder for Planning and Regeneration and was elected by the Wealdstone Ward. The action point to offer Keith an invitation to this weeks Trust Board meeting was contingent on a response from our club to our offer to go through the consultation findings - as this has not happened yet the invitation was not made.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby John_c » 11 Jul 2012, 18:50

Hiveoccupier wrote:John,

Thank you for taking the time to read the Trust Board minutes. As an avid reader of these documents I am sure you will have noted that we have made regular contact with the club to provide information, advance notice of planned activities, and offers of support and joint working. We will continue to do this in the interests of seeking to build a constructive dialogue that is of benefit to Barnet supporters - an interest of course which has the success of the club we follow at its core.

With regard to contact with Wealdstone FC I'm sorry if you can't see where the shared interest lies. If as seems very likely we are going to move to the Hive on a temporary basis at the start of 2013/14 surely it makes sense for all of us for that move to be as successful as possible for Barnet FC and its supporters. If there is local animosity to our move there it will be less likely that the move is a success - anything we can do to reduce the risk of such animosity has to be helpful don't you think ?

I am pretty sure that Wealdstone FC supporters read Onlybarnet in the same way is we are reading their forum. Reading messages saying it is hard to sympathise with them might not be the greatest contribution that can be made to the development of a harmonious relationship with a community we will come into regular contact with when our first team is playing at the Hive.

For the sake of accuracy the Leader of Harrow Council is Bill Stephenson, Keith Ferry is the portfolio holder for Planning and Regeneration and was elected by the Wealdstone Ward. The action point to offer Keith an invitation to this weeks Trust Board meeting was contingent on a response from our club to our offer to go through the consultation findings - as this has not happened yet the invitation was not made.


The little that the minutes actually say show that you have had no response. As you will have noted on my previous comments I have suggested that you need to work out a process whereby the club will actually engage with the Trust. You were on the back foot from the start due to previous events. Then you go and make it worse by stirring things up in Harrow.

A supporters trust with no active involvement with the club it, er, supports, is useless. Unless you actively plan to disrupt the clubs attempts to find a new home, which is what appears to have happened so far.

I support Barnet FC, I don't fret about what other fans think when they read what Barnet fans are saying about them. Why would I? To suggest that this in some way will affect relations with the local community at the Hive, is just plain silly. And a bit smug.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby DavidLH » 11 Jul 2012, 20:52

What evidence is there that Wealdstone have any more support in the vicinity of The Hive than Barnet do ? Wealdstone used to draw their support from central Harrow. Now it's probably about a 50/50 split between there (and people who have moved from there) and Ruislip.

I'm really concerned that the people running The Trust seem to be pursuing their own agenda and looking to ally with anyone who is opposed to the move to The Hive. How do I go about joining ? The website seems to actively discourage new members.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Hiveoccupier » 11 Jul 2012, 22:10

David,

You can't join the Trust at the moment because membership runs from season to season and applications for the next season haven't opened yet.

We are working on a membership application process that will allow people to join by post, in person and via the internet. It should be up and running in the next couple of weeks and we will use all available channels to publicise it.

Please tell us on what basis you have obtained the perception "that the people running the Trust are pursuing their own agenda and looking to allying with anyone who is opposed to the move the Hive". All that we have done since the new Trust Board was elected on this issue is to try :

- through a consultation to establish how and why a move to the Hive might affect Barnet Fans attendance at games;
- establish a dialogue with the club to see if we can work together to address people's concerns for everyone's benefit
- understand how stakeholders in Harrow view the prospect of Barnet playing their first team games at the Hive and having
our fans coming into their community

Based on the input we have received The Trust Board is not in opposition to the idea of moving from Underhill to the Hive as an enabler to the club's longer term ambition of having a fit for the future 10k capacity stadium in Barnet.

John

I support Barnet FC, I'm pissed off that Barnet council have given Saracens (a club that I support in Rugby terms) the support they have over Copthall after the way they treated us. it makes me feel negative about Saracens. If I had spent 10 years helping to raise £300k to try to secure a future for our club at Copthall in advance of this encounter I might even be less than welcoming to people in back and red shirts wearing a Fez.

If you don't think that Barnet Fans going to an area which has lost a club just down the road (Edgware Town) and has a club (Wealdstone) that feels that they are being robbed are not going to get a negative welcome from some locals you are very naive. Try turning the geography round - suppose Enfield were in our position and we were in Wealdstones.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Hiveoccupier » 11 Jul 2012, 22:28

John_c wrote:
Hiveoccupier wrote:

Unless you actively plan to disrupt the clubs attempts to find a new home, which is what appears to have happened so far.



Please read the recommendation contained in the Report for Cabinet concerning "The Amendment to Lease Terms to Permit Playing of Professional League Football Matches" at Prince Edward Playing Fields. It is contained at agenda item 24 (page 452) of the papers presented in advance to the Harrow Council meeting on 19 July 2012.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby John_c » 12 Jul 2012, 04:58

Hiveoccupier wrote:David,

You can't join the Trust at the moment because membership runs from season to season and applications for the next season haven't opened yet.



What on earth?!! There's a window to join the Trust??? When did that happen? That is ridiculous.

Please tell us on what basis you have obtained the perception "that the people running the Trust are pursuing their own agenda and looking to allying with anyone who is opposed to the move the Hive". All that we have done since the new Trust Board was elected on this issue is to try :

- through a consultation to establish how and why a move to the Hive might affect Barnet Fans attendance at games;
- establish a dialogue with the club to see if we can work together to address people's concerns for everyone's benefit
- understand how stakeholders in Harrow view the prospect of Barnet playing their first team games at the Hive and having
our fans coming into their community

Based on the input we have received The Trust Board is not in opposition to the idea of moving from Underhill to the Hive as an enabler to the club's longer term ambition of having a fit for the future 10k capacity stadium in Barnet.


Ha ha ha. That's properly funny. Your spin is starting to get silly now Derek. Out of the 6 elected Directors I know at least 4 who simply oppose anything the club does because of their inbuilt dislike of the chairman. Obviously what you are now doing is to attempt to get the move to the Hive enshrined as a temporary one only, giving the club no options. Clever.

If you think a few phone calls and emails is the plan to get a working dialogue with a club, then you're wrong. Going behind the clubs back and stirring things up in Harrow isn't an ideal way to establish a dialogue.

My spin is that Directors of the Trust have actively sought to disrupt the clubs plans through supposed constructive dialogue. You're starting to treat us like idiots here Derek.
John

I support Barnet FC, I'm pissed off that Barnet council have given Saracens (a club that I support in Rugby terms) the support they have over Copthall after the way they treated us. it makes me feel negative about Saracens. If I had spent 10 years helping to raise £300k to try to secure a future for our club at Copthall in advance of this encounter I might even be less than welcoming to people in back and red shirts wearing a Fez.

If you don't think that Barnet Fans going to an area which has lost a club just down the road (Edgware Town) and has a club (Wealdstone) that feels that they are being robbed are not going to get a negative welcome from some locals you are very naive. Try turning the geography round - suppose Enfield were in our position and we were in Wealdstones.


I doubt that there is a single Barnet fan that's happy with what has happened at Copthall. You're now bringing Edgware Town into this? David correctly asks the question on this thread. How many Wealdstone fans live around the Hive? There will undoubtedly be some negative reaction from locals. I highly doubt that it will be anything to do with Wealdstone FC though.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby Hiveoccupier » 12 Jul 2012, 09:19

"Obviously what you are now doing is to attempt to get the move to the Hive enshrined as a temporary one only, giving the club no options. Clever."

Ever since the proposed move to the Hive was announced by The Club TK has positioned it as a temporary move while we try to develop a stadium that can match our ambitions in Barnet. It seems to me that the recommendation going to Harrow Council on 19th July 2012 reflects that positioning and disproves quite well that the contacts we have had with Harrow Council have in anyway been disruptive to the clubs plans.

Unless of course you are saying that the Club's real plan is to move to the Hive permanently and that TK has been lying to everyone about what he really wants for the long term.

Personally I don't think TK has been lying. What I think we should all do is get behind his plan for both the short and long term.

I would hope that as a member of the Trust you could find a way of parking your personal vendetta against the current Trust Board and use your undoubted connections within the Club to help build the constructive relationship you keep saying we should have.
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Re: Wealdstone FC's take on PEPF

Postby GRH » 12 Jul 2012, 09:45

Who exactly has robbed Wealdstone?

The Copthall situation is completely different as we were never afforded the right to bid for the site this time around. If we had been offered it, and were unable to finance the development, then I wouldn't have an issue with it being made available for other parties. Even given the way that Barnet Council have conducted themselves with this, I hold no grudges with Saracens who are simply doing what is best for their club.

Likewise, if Wealdstone wanted to relocated across the border in Edgware, and we couldn't make use of such a site, then good luck to them.

I hope the Trust isn't sympathetic to any Wealdstone view that we are in some way aiding a great injustice that is being done to them.
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