1303

Anything and everything related to Barnet FC
hoofer2
Posts: 5262
Joined: 01 Feb 2011, 13:48

Re: 1303

Post: # 223880Post hoofer2 »

I am now one of those fans who will only be able to attend a handful of matches each season :(

I run a Cub pack on Tuesday evenings, and on Saturdays childrens activities have been prioritised as it's impossible
to be in 4 places at once (all 3 kids kid had full memberships until very recently ).

My heart and mind is always occupied with Barnet on Saturday afternoons Tuesday evenings even if I cannot be there
in person.

In my opinion the saturation of football on TV will account for the floating fans not attending matches, though for me there
-is nothing like being at a match live - missing 3 goals out of six because your youngest needed the toilet.

I look at it another way, 1300 is a good core and where we are located in an impossible city to grow our fanbase compared to others
such as Cambridge / Oxford / Swindon that have one dominant club. (we have Watford/Spurs/Arsenal/QPR/Chelsea/Wembley Stadium within a short
journey by public transport) The only thing that is going to increase the numbers is a period of sustained success on the pitch culminating to promotion to League 1 and a few decent cup runs. Sadly kids who are brought up on a diet of Premier League, La Liga, Bundesliga etc. sadly think that anything below Premier League / Championship is s**t and as for the non-league scene well....

When I started watching Barnet regularly in the 1980s, you simply had to attend matches. Now if a kids parents / guardians are happy to
settle for watching footie on TV only, it is clear that the kid will too.
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BeesKnees
Posts: 6602
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 16:49

Re: 1303

Post: # 223881Post BeesKnees »

Edd1 wrote:
BeesKnees wrote:Why are we comparing Tuesday nights in August against teams from miles away to Saturdays against our nearest rivals. What do you think that proves?

The football in 1999 was awful despite the results. The good football we are playing now will only result in a regular increase in attendance if people see it. We desperately need a cup run with a big draw at the Hive to tempt in neutrals.
That argument implies that a lot of people have stopped coming altogether. Other than the handful of anti Hive and anti TK people I don't know of anyone that has stopped altogether. What I do know a fare few of is people who come less often than they did. Partly it's an awkward location but partly because they have been bored.

Someone referred to PF as a legend. Nice guy, won the conference but seriously, a lot of the football was just pedestrian and dull. It wasn't horrible like under John Still. But neither was it thrill a minute stuff. Entertain the punters, win games and they will come more often. It doesn't need to get on tv. They'll see it and those that don't can read a league table.
I believe the question is more complicated than that and I'm not implying a lot of people have stopped coming.
It's not only those who stopped coming\ come less often, it's also those who never came. Over 5 years you will have fans who stop coming for other reasons (family, moving away, no longer with us etc) that have to be replaced by new supporters (people moving in, teenagers).
The question is what is attracting a teenager in Barnet or Edgware to suddenly take an interest and form a bond with the club. Good football they don't see and being in the top 10 wont create the buzz that gets them in, but if you look at teams that recently had big home cup draws then you can see that it raised local awareness and got a lot through the doors, with decent numbers coming back. It's not about being on TV, it's about associating having a good experience at the Hive.
LoudmouthBFC
Posts: 1489
Joined: 19 Mar 2016, 18:39

Re: 1303

Post: # 223882Post LoudmouthBFC »

I don't think the ticket prices are high enough, being a club in London we should be paying London prices :whistle:
eastbarnetsupporter
Posts: 375
Joined: 17 Sep 2016, 23:08
Contact:

Re: 1303

Post: # 223883Post eastbarnetsupporter »

Tried to convince my colleague to come tonight and said £19 was too much for L2 (let alone the £25 for the West).

As Hoofer2 said, we have a core of 1300, and I remember back in the early 2000s it was about that too at Underhill.

A cup run to gain publicity would help, but even that sudden increase would probably subside over time if the league football results didn't keep up.

Let's just accept we have a small following (we always have) and until we get to L1, it's most likely going to stay around this 1,300 figure.
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Mikel Bee
Posts: 3884
Joined: 20 Jan 2011, 02:23

Re: 1303

Post: # 223886Post Mikel Bee »

Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.
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hoofer2
Posts: 5262
Joined: 01 Feb 2011, 13:48

Re: 1303

Post: # 223894Post hoofer2 »

Mikel Bee wrote: Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.
If the number of doorstep fans of Arsenal/Spurs for Stevenage is considered huge, we stand no chance then. Stevenage is a large town that does not have any large club geographically within a 10 mile radius. In addition, we also have West Ham, Palace and Chelsea to add to the mix just from the Premier League. It's not the same comparison.
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BeesKnees
Posts: 6602
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 16:49

Re: 1303

Post: # 223902Post BeesKnees »

hoofer2 wrote:If the number of doorstep fans of Arsenal/Spurs for Stevenage is considered huge, we stand no chance then. Stevenage is a large town that does not have any large club geographically within a 10 mile radius. In addition, we also have West Ham, Palace and Chelsea to add to the mix just from the Premier League. It's not the same comparison.
I'm not convinced by this argument. Your local area isn't determined by geographical distances, particularly in London. It's quicker for Stevenage residents to reach the Emirates Stadium by public transport (30 min) than it is Barnet residents to reach the Hive. So it would be a fairer assessment to work out how many other clubs are within 30 minutes travel time and then make the comparison. The only clubs that seem to meet this are Spurs while they are at Wembley

I'd like to think the club are using these tools to help determine where to market
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/urban-plann ... ction=From
dpa
Posts: 369
Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 13:06
Location: Somewhere in the Midlands

Re: 1303

Post: # 223903Post dpa »

It is clear from the thread and the number of well thought out viewpoints that there appears to be number of factors that are resulting in our current attendance levels. As a result I do not feel that 1 answer will resolve. I do however agree with one of the posts above that since 2005, we have never really pushed on and our football at times has been 'industrial' rather than enjoyable.

From a personal viewpoint.....

My father has supported Barnet since 1959 and myself since I could walk (born 1970). I have previously been a season ticket holder (Underhill) and a held a membership (Hive) for 2 years (cancelled last year).

However my father and I don't come as frequently anymore because of 2 issues.

1) The quality of the football - under Martin Allen in particular, the football has been bland/ boring/ hoof ball and sometimes just not enjoyable to watch. As I do not live in London, I commit 1/2 a day every other weekend supporting 'my team' and after years of mediocre entertainment it becomes easier and easier to find excuses not to go to games anymore; which is very sad. I suspect I am not the only one when considering the current attendance numbers. I am however hopeful that Rossi and the current squad will improve on the entertainment factor - good signs so far

2) Cost - My father is a pensioner and so the cost of 2 x West Stand membership tickets for the season (excluding any sign on fee) works out @ £672 for the year for us both. So I have to earn over £1kpa to cover that cost - before you factor in travelling costs (I like near MK), programme costs & occasional parking. This is a sizeable sum. When you consider point 1 above, over time I have decided that its just not viable to sustain my membership costs. I didn't feel I was getting value for the money. As a result, my father and I now pick and choose the games we go to - so far we have seen Luton & Cambridge @ home. I will be going to Carlisle on Saturday as never been before. Overall I reckon we will do about 10 home games in the coming season if the quality of football improves and maybe the odd away game per season. Each home game will cost me £39 a game for us both = max £390 for the season versus £672 = no brainer in my opinion.

If the cost was reduced would I go more often? yes.

Does the above call into question my support and love for the club? I leave others to decide that. I have just come to a point, like perhaps others, that the benefit of going to watch my team is outweighed by the cost.

I do think however that a winning team playing good attacking football will help reinvigorate the support (past & new) and hopefully get more bums on seats. I know it will make it harder for me to find 'excuses' not to go.

Cheers

Dean
jdmckbee
Posts: 228
Joined: 18 Jan 2016, 21:55

Re: 1303

Post: # 223906Post jdmckbee »

dpa wrote:It is clear from the thread and the number of well thought out viewpoints that there appears to be number of factors that are resulting in our current attendance levels. As a result I do not feel that 1 answer will resolve. I do however agree with one of the posts above that since 2005, we have never really pushed on and our football at times has been 'industrial' rather than enjoyable.

From a personal viewpoint.....

My father has supported Barnet since 1959 and myself since I could walk (born 1970). I have previously been a season ticket holder (Underhill) and a held a membership (Hive) for 2 years (cancelled last year).

However my father and I don't come as frequently anymore because of 2 issues.

1) The quality of the football - under Martin Allen in particular, the football has been bland/ boring/ hoof ball and sometimes just not enjoyable to watch. As I do not live in London, I commit 1/2 a day every other weekend supporting 'my team' and after years of mediocre entertainment it becomes easier and easier to find excuses not to go to games anymore; which is very sad. I suspect I am not the only one when considering the current attendance numbers. I am however hopeful that Rossi and the current squad will improve on the entertainment factor - good signs so far

2) Cost - My father is a pensioner and so the cost of 2 x West Stand membership tickets for the season (excluding any sign on fee) works out @ £672 for the year for us both. So I have to earn over £1kpa to cover that cost - before you factor in travelling costs (I like near MK), programme costs & occasional parking. This is a sizeable sum. When you consider point 1 above, over time I have decided that its just not viable to sustain my membership costs. I didn't feel I was getting value for the money. As a result, my father and I now pick and choose the games we go to - so far we have seen Luton & Cambridge @ home. I will be going to Carlisle on Saturday as never been before. Overall I reckon we will do about 10 home games in the coming season if the quality of football improves and maybe the odd away game per season. Each home game will cost me £39 a game for us both = max £390 for the season versus £672 = no brainer in my opinion.

If the cost was reduced would I go more often? yes.

Does the above call into question my support and love for the club? I leave others to decide that. I have just come to a point, like perhaps others, that the benefit of going to watch my team is outweighed by the cost.

I do think however that a winning team playing good attacking football will help reinvigorate the support (past & new) and hopefully get more bums on seats. I know it will make it harder for me to find 'excuses' not to go.

Cheers

Dean
Excellent post this.
We're the West Bank Underhill......
jdmckbee
Posts: 228
Joined: 18 Jan 2016, 21:55

Re: 1303

Post: # 223907Post jdmckbee »

dpa wrote:It is clear from the thread and the number of well thought out viewpoints that there appears to be number of factors that are resulting in our current attendance levels. As a result I do not feel that 1 answer will resolve. I do however agree with one of the posts above that since 2005, we have never really pushed on and our football at times has been 'industrial' rather than enjoyable.

From a personal viewpoint.....

My father has supported Barnet since 1959 and myself since I could walk (born 1970). I have previously been a season ticket holder (Underhill) and a held a membership (Hive) for 2 years (cancelled last year).

However my father and I don't come as frequently anymore because of 2 issues.

1) The quality of the football - under Martin Allen in particular, the football has been bland/ boring/ hoof ball and sometimes just not enjoyable to watch. As I do not live in London, I commit 1/2 a day every other weekend supporting 'my team' and after years of mediocre entertainment it becomes easier and easier to find excuses not to go to games anymore; which is very sad. I suspect I am not the only one when considering the current attendance numbers. I am however hopeful that Rossi and the current squad will improve on the entertainment factor - good signs so far

2) Cost - My father is a pensioner and so the cost of 2 x West Stand membership tickets for the season (excluding any sign on fee) works out @ £672 for the year for us both. So I have to earn over £1kpa to cover that cost - before you factor in travelling costs (I like near MK), programme costs & occasional parking. This is a sizeable sum. When you consider point 1 above, over time I have decided that its just not viable to sustain my membership costs. I didn't feel I was getting value for the money. As a result, my father and I now pick and choose the games we go to - so far we have seen Luton & Cambridge @ home. I will be going to Carlisle on Saturday as never been before. Overall I reckon we will do about 10 home games in the coming season if the quality of football improves and maybe the odd away game per season. Each home game will cost me £39 a game for us both = max £390 for the season versus £672 = no brainer in my opinion.

If the cost was reduced would I go more often? yes.

Does the above call into question my support and love for the club? I leave others to decide that. I have just come to a point, like perhaps others, that the benefit of going to watch my team is outweighed by the cost.

I do think however that a winning team playing good attacking football will help reinvigorate the support (past & new) and hopefully get more bums on seats. I know it will make it harder for me to find 'excuses' not to go.

Cheers

Dean
Excellent post this.
We're the West Bank Underhill......
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ninestein
Posts: 6936
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 20:00

Re: 1303

Post: # 223911Post ninestein »

The attendance issue is a massive puzzle in the sense there's so many pieces of the jigsaw which play a part.
Lots of valid points raised already. I touched on this in the Chairman's Q&A thread, but I'll repeat it here because it's relevant:

The membership scheme which TK champions is reasonably good value for money, so long as you can attend most of the games throughout the season. However, apart from giving out free tickets to schools/clubs and hoping some of them come back, we need a means to attract the casual new fan in. This could be a parent & child taking in their first match experience. Likewise, It could also be a floating adult fan who normally follows another club but can't get tickets so goes elsewhere for a football fix as a one-off.

We shouldn't expect these people to see one match and then immediately sign up for a membership. Depending on the match experience on offer, they may wish to take a second look on another day, or even a third visit before making that sort of commitment. This is much easier when the team is performing well and winning games. Typically these matches harness the atmosphere better and for a kid coming to watch for the first time this is massive. If their first visit is a drab 2-0 defeat then we probably won't see them again for a long time, or at all. Therefore, we need to find a way of offering something to non-members in the short term. The BOGOF ticket offers are one example, but we need to ensure that new fans are the ones taking us up on it. Kids for a quid is another good example, lots of other clubs do it, but promote it early and really advertise it, not just a week's notice. I think some clubs also offer a half year season ticket, but as the membership scheme is paid monthly anyway, it's probably not worth trying.

I liked the idea last season of members getting free extra tickets for lower category games. I used some of mine to let my colleague at work and his son watch the Notts County match. His son had played a tournament at the Hive a few weeks prior, and they enjoyed the game. If the right fixture came along, they'd probably come back of their own accord, but I know they would never sign up for a membership because of other footballing commitments. Problem is, I can see a lot of these free tickets being taken up and given to people who would normally come anyway, thus "bucking the system".

Rossi and the team have made great strides already in improving the quality of football on offer. Results are starting to match it, and we're not just winning games 1-0, we're scoring goals. If this continues in the coming weeks, I can see some of our existing fans returning in the short term, but we still need to reach out to the local area more if we want to grow our membership.

In order to do this, maybe the club should tap into our knowledge a bit more... Think about what drew people to watch Barnet at Underhill years ago: It was local, you could walk or bus it to the ground and not worry about driving home, and therefore enjoy a drink in the clubhouse afterwards. The football under Fry was great fun to watch, you were likely to see goals and matches being won. Kids could stand close to the pitch and feel a part of the action. You could just pay for a one-off game and watch. The prices were what they were and fair for the level of football we were playing (albeit at the time this was prior to the Premier League / Sky's domination of the game and subsequently all the costs within the game spiralling out of control). I'm sure the rest of you have your own other reasons for attending Barnet rather than going to one of the giants. Maybe we need to capture those reasons and think about how we can apply them to today as we seek to find the next generation of fans.
Barnet showing all the flair of Rupert-the-Bears trousers, but lots more style!
pgbee
Posts: 3704
Joined: 08 Mar 2011, 20:56

Re: 1303

Post: # 223913Post pgbee »

Mikel Bee wrote:Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.
On the other hand, Crawley (I'd say a similar fan base to ourselves) probably haven't maintained their crowd increase after relegation from L1. There maybe good reasons for that especially that they are lower mid table rather than challenging like Stevenage have done....
jerroll
Posts: 11808
Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 17:25

Re: 1303

Post: # 223916Post jerroll »

pgbee wrote:
Mikel Bee wrote:Dare I say it but good, exciting football, cheaper tickets and marketing the locals will only take us so far in increasing attendances. What's needed more than anything are promotion to League 1 and some good cup runs.

Let's look at Stevenage for example. A Conference side pulling in roughly the same level of support as we did at that level. Promoted to League 2, saw a modest increase. Then from 2011 in League 1 with their play off push and home cup tie vs Spurs saw the league average consistently above 3000. Even since falling back to league 2, they've kept a large majority of that new generation of supporters and still average well over 3000. This is a club, similar to ourselves with a huge amount of Arsenal/Spurs fans on their doorstep.

http://european-football-statistics.co. ... b/stev.htm

The prestige of playing in a higher division is a pull for Premiership armchair supporters and helps bring in a new generation of supporters. If we can improve on our one dismal spell in League 1 then I believe attendances will improve and we'll pick up new long term supporters.
On the other hand, Crawley (I'd say a similar fan base to ourselves) probably haven't maintained their crowd increase after relegation from L1. There maybe good reasons for that especially that they are lower mid table rather than challenging like Stevenage have done....
not sure Crawley are a decent example, may have picked up a few brighton fans who couldn't get in at Withdean during their bankrolled rise but I remember them as a c**p club in the southern prem with 600 crowds not that long ago.
pgbee
Posts: 3704
Joined: 08 Mar 2011, 20:56

Re: 1303

Post: # 223917Post pgbee »

I was really comparing Crawley to Stevenage not us! We are far too classy to be compared :-)
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ninestein
Posts: 6936
Joined: 03 Aug 2011, 20:00

Re: 1303

Post: # 223918Post ninestein »

We have been at the Hive just over 4 seasons now (doesn't time fly!), and apart from the Gateshead match which clinched the Conference title, we've not yet had a proper big cup tie or playoff match to last a long time in the memory bank as fans.

Since 1992, we had 3 x league playoff semis (Blackpool, Colchester, Posh), 1 x conference playoff semi (Shrewsbury), plus well attended cup games against Man City, QPR, West Ham, Norwich, Middlesbrough, Watford, plus the two seasons we made the 4th round of the FA Cup, which despite the poor draws against Plymouth & Rovers, still captured the imagination of the occasion. In 20 years that's a reasonable number of big occasions. You could also argue the Chelsea game fits in there as we were actually drawn at home but switched the tie to Stamford Bridge. The long and short of it is we need to start building more memories at the Hive. The cup draw is always down to luck, we can't influence that, but we can help by getting into the hat for the next rounds, and competing well in our division to give ourselves a chance of a top 3 or top 7 finish.

Big occasions build bonds between fans and their club. It invokes pride amongst fans, provokes discussion at home, at work, at school. It puts the club on the map.
Barnet showing all the flair of Rupert-the-Bears trousers, but lots more style!
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