Pecking Order

[b4life]

As an ex Pub Manager I would advise against ever drinking draft in an outlet like the Hive which only operates once or twice a week. The Main bar is a little different if it's getting used every day, but you really need to give the draught a miss in the other bars.

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

I considered offering my services free of charge a few years ago when the Hive had just opened and it looked like they needed the help but for whatever reason I never got around to it. The problem is that they are trying to run the operations as if they are pubs/restaurants, (or not as the case may be), and they need to be run completely differently and even the customers need to be treated differently.

You need to plan ahead effectively and then you need to carry-out the plan and make tweaks week on week as things work and others don't. You also want to make tnings as easy as possible for staff and customers alike, while at the same time maximizing the income potential. The more whatever yuo serve, the more £ you take and the more profit you make. Better service equals positive word of mouth and repeat business.

Bottles, (plastic bottles at that is the way to go and you will soon find a happy medium between price going of product going up and customer waiting times and dissatisfaction levels going down. There are some decent bottled ales available now that might be more expensive than the draught, but at least you know what you are getting. It's quick and easy and while I'm on the subject, do away with everything except £1 and 50p prices. Someone mentioned a £3.65 or £3.85 pint in this thread. Balls to that. £3.50 or £4. Stop fannying about. If it's too expensive people won't buy it but £4 for decent service is better than £3.65 for poor service. The amount of wastage that will be going on with draught is going to be ridiculous in a set-up like this.

It's exactly the same for the food. Don't attempt to deliver something that is beyond your means and fail at it. Keep it simple and bang it out and then when you have got that down to a fine art on matchdays then slowly add to the offer. Encourage early business, (not opening until 6 is madness during the week). Look at how other businesses do it and learn from them. I've done lots of "pop-up" "event bars" and to start off I used to find them really hard work and stressful. In the end I loved them and it was all about planning and preparation, (like a lot of things). Know what you want to sell, cater for that specifically and make sure you are damn good at flogging it when the heat is on. Don't fanny about with niceties. Just do the nitty gritty and do it well.

TK is a good businessman and this is an area that I'm astonished that he has let fail for so long. It reflects really poorly on him and the club. He probably has someone with restaurant experience but what they are lacking in is special event experience and event bar experiences. We don't have all night every day to et peoples money. We have a couple or 3 hours a couple of times a week and we need to be better at taking it and making it.

This all sounds very logical and sensible especially the beer side of things, surprised that TK doesn't have anyone who has this experience, maybe you should drop him a line.

[MCB]

As an ex Pub Manager I would advise against ever drinking draft in an outlet like the Hive which only operates once or twice a week. The Main bar is a little different if it's getting used every day, but you really need to give the draught a miss in the other bars.

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

I considered offering my services free of charge a few years ago when the Hive had just opened and it looked like they needed the help but for whatever reason I never got around to it. The problem is that they are trying to run the operations as if they are pubs/restaurants, (or not as the case may be), and they need to be run completely differently and even the customers need to be treated differently.

You need to plan ahead effectively and then you need to carry-out the plan and make tweaks week on week as things work and others don't. You also want to make tnings as easy as possible for staff and customers alike, while at the same time maximizing the income potential. The more whatever yuo serve, the more £ you take and the more profit you make. Better service equals positive word of mouth and repeat business.

Bottles, (plastic bottles at that is the way to go and you will soon find a happy medium between price going of product going up and customer waiting times and dissatisfaction levels going down. There are some decent bottled ales available now that might be more expensive than the draught, but at least you know what you are getting. It's quick and easy and while I'm on the subject, do away with everything except £1 and 50p prices. Someone mentioned a £3.65 or £3.85 pint in this thread. Balls to that. £3.50 or £4. Stop fannying about. If it's too expensive people won't buy it but £4 for decent service is better than £3.65 for poor service. The amount of wastage that will be going on with draught is going to be ridiculous in a set-up like this.

It's exactly the same for the food. Don't attempt to deliver something that is beyond your means and fail at it. Keep it simple and bang it out and then when you have got that down to a fine art on matchdays then slowly add to the offer. Encourage early business, (not opening until 6 is madness during the week). Look at how other businesses do it and learn from them. I've done lots of "pop-up" "event bars" and to start off I used to find them really hard work and stressful. In the end I loved them and it was all about planning and preparation, (like a lot of things). Know what you want to sell, cater for that specifically and make sure you are damn good at flogging it when the heat is on. Don't fanny about with niceties. Just do the nitty gritty and do it well.

TK is a good businessman and this is an area that I'm astonished that he has let fail for so long. It reflects really poorly on him and the club. He probably has someone with restaurant experience but what they are lacking in is special event experience and event bar experiences. We don't have all night every day to et peoples money. We have a couple or 3 hours a couple of times a week and we need to be better at taking it and making it.

This all sounds very logical and sensible especially the beer side of things, surprised that TK doesn't have anyone who has this experience, maybe you should drop him a line.

Jimbo, serious question - you mention not drinking draught. But - Wembley, Emirates, music venues etc etc all have similar number of games (ok a couple more than us) - and they do draught. Surely things have changed? Or are you saying you should never drink draught outside of a pub or a venue open every day?

[BEEGONE]

As an ex Pub Manager I would advise against ever drinking draft in an outlet like the Hive which only operates once or twice a week. The Main bar is a little different if it's getting used every day, but you really need to give the draught a miss in the other bars.

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

I considered offering my services free of charge a few years ago when the Hive had just opened and it looked like they needed the help but for whatever reason I never got around to it. The problem is that they are trying to run the operations as if they are pubs/restaurants, (or not as the case may be), and they need to be run completely differently and even the customers need to be treated differently.

You need to plan ahead effectively and then you need to carry-out the plan and make tweaks week on week as things work and others don't. You also want to make tnings as easy as possible for staff and customers alike, while at the same time maximizing the income potential. The more whatever yuo serve, the more £ you take and the more profit you make. Better service equals positive word of mouth and repeat business.

Bottles, (plastic bottles at that is the way to go and you will soon find a happy medium between price going of product going up and customer waiting times and dissatisfaction levels going down. There are some decent bottled ales available now that might be more expensive than the draught, but at least you know what you are getting. It's quick and easy and while I'm on the subject, do away with everything except £1 and 50p prices. Someone mentioned a £3.65 or £3.85 pint in this thread. Balls to that. £3.50 or £4. Stop fannying about. If it's too expensive people won't buy it but £4 for decent service is better than £3.65 for poor service. The amount of wastage that will be going on with draught is going to be ridiculous in a set-up like this.

It's exactly the same for the food. Don't attempt to deliver something that is beyond your means and fail at it. Keep it simple and bang it out and then when you have got that down to a fine art on matchdays then slowly add to the offer. Encourage early business, (not opening until 6 is madness during the week). Look at how other businesses do it and learn from them. I've done lots of "pop-up" "event bars" and to start off I used to find them really hard work and stressful. In the end I loved them and it was all about planning and preparation, (like a lot of things). Know what you want to sell, cater for that specifically and make sure you are damn good at flogging it when the heat is on. Don't fanny about with niceties. Just do the nitty gritty and do it well.

TK is a good businessman and this is an area that I'm astonished that he has let fail for so long. It reflects really poorly on him and the club. He probably has someone with restaurant experience but what they are lacking in is special event experience and event bar experiences. We don't have all night every day to et peoples money. We have a couple or 3 hours a couple of times a week and we need to be better at taking it and making it.

Your forgetting that the venues are multi usage and multi purpose to be utilizing away from football.. You cannot just serve bottles at corporate functions . A Pre pour system also would not be used for functions as it looks wrong.

[BEEGONE]

As an ex Pub Manager I would advise against ever drinking draft in an outlet like the Hive which only operates once or twice a week. The Main bar is a little different if it's getting used every day, but you really need to give the draught a miss in the other bars.

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

I considered offering my services free of charge a few years ago when the Hive had just opened and it looked like they needed the help but for whatever reason I never got around to it. The problem is that they are trying to run the operations as if they are pubs/restaurants, (or not as the case may be), and they need to be run completely differently and even the customers need to be treated differently.

You need to plan ahead effectively and then you need to carry-out the plan and make tweaks week on week as things work and others don't. You also want to make tnings as easy as possible for staff and customers alike, while at the same time maximizing the income potential. The more whatever yuo serve, the more £ you take and the more profit you make. Better service equals positive word of mouth and repeat business.

Bottles, (plastic bottles at that is the way to go and you will soon find a happy medium between price going of product going up and customer waiting times and dissatisfaction levels going down. There are some decent bottled ales available now that might be more expensive than the draught, but at least you know what you are getting. It's quick and easy and while I'm on the subject, do away with everything except £1 and 50p prices. Someone mentioned a £3.65 or £3.85 pint in this thread. Balls to that. £3.50 or £4. Stop fannying about. If it's too expensive people won't buy it but £4 for decent service is better than £3.65 for poor service. The amount of wastage that will be going on with draught is going to be ridiculous in a set-up like this.

It's exactly the same for the food. Don't attempt to deliver something that is beyond your means and fail at it. Keep it simple and bang it out and then when you have got that down to a fine art on matchdays then slowly add to the offer. Encourage early business, (not opening until 6 is madness during the week). Look at how other businesses do it and learn from them. I've done lots of "pop-up" "event bars" and to start off I used to find them really hard work and stressful. In the end I loved them and it was all about planning and preparation, (like a lot of things). Know what you want to sell, cater for that specifically and make sure you are damn good at flogging it when the heat is on. Don't fanny about with niceties. Just do the nitty gritty and do it well.

TK is a good businessman and this is an area that I'm astonished that he has let fail for so long. It reflects really poorly on him and the club. He probably has someone with restaurant experience but what they are lacking in is special event experience and event bar experiences. We don't have all night every day to et peoples money. We have a couple or 3 hours a couple of times a week and we need to be better at taking it and making it.

Your forgetting that the venues are multi usage and multi purpose to be utilizing away from football.. You cannot just serve bottles at corporate functions . A Pre pour system also would not be used for functions as it looks wrong.

[NoMagRyan]

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

Ha, I've learnt something today. Duly noted.

[Jimbokav1971]

As an ex Pub Manager I would advise against ever drinking draft in an outlet like the Hive which only operates once or twice a week. The Main bar is a little different if it's getting used every day, but you really need to give the draught a miss in the other bars.

Guinness especially can be rubbish if it isn't pulled through regularly. Most Guinness drinkers I know going into a bar that they don't frequent regularly will look on the tables/bars for Guinness BEFORE ordering their pint. If you can see someone else drinking the black stuff then give it a go. If nobody else is already drinking it then I'm afraid that you should give it a swerve and order something else.

I considered offering my services free of charge a few years ago when the Hive had just opened and it looked like they needed the help but for whatever reason I never got around to it. The problem is that they are trying to run the operations as if they are pubs/restaurants, (or not as the case may be), and they need to be run completely differently and even the customers need to be treated differently.

You need to plan ahead effectively and then you need to carry-out the plan and make tweaks week on week as things work and others don't. You also want to make tnings as easy as possible for staff and customers alike, while at the same time maximizing the income potential. The more whatever yuo serve, the more £ you take and the more profit you make. Better service equals positive word of mouth and repeat business.

Bottles, (plastic bottles at that is the way to go and you will soon find a happy medium between price going of product going up and customer waiting times and dissatisfaction levels going down. There are some decent bottled ales available now that might be more expensive than the draught, but at least you know what you are getting. It's quick and easy and while I'm on the subject, do away with everything except £1 and 50p prices. Someone mentioned a £3.65 or £3.85 pint in this thread. Balls to that. £3.50 or £4. Stop fannying about. If it's too expensive people won't buy it but £4 for decent service is better than £3.65 for poor service. The amount of wastage that will be going on with draught is going to be ridiculous in a set-up like this.

It's exactly the same for the food. Don't attempt to deliver something that is beyond your means and fail at it. Keep it simple and bang it out and then when you have got that down to a fine art on matchdays then slowly add to the offer. Encourage early business, (not opening until 6 is madness during the week). Look at how other businesses do it and learn from them. I've done lots of "pop-up" "event bars" and to start off I used to find them really hard work and stressful. In the end I loved them and it was all about planning and preparation, (like a lot of things). Know what you want to sell, cater for that specifically and make sure you are damn good at flogging it when the heat is on. Don't fanny about with niceties. Just do the nitty gritty and do it well.

TK is a good businessman and this is an area that I'm astonished that he has let fail for so long. It reflects really poorly on him and the club. He probably has someone with restaurant experience but what they are lacking in is special event experience and event bar experiences. We don't have all night every day to et peoples money. We have a couple or 3 hours a couple of times a week and we need to be better at taking it and making it.

This all sounds very logical and sensible especially the beer side of things, surprised that TK doesn't have anyone who has this experience, maybe you should drop him a line.

Jimbo, serious question - you mention not drinking draught. But - Wembley, Emirates, music venues etc etc all have similar number of games (ok a couple more than us) - and they do draught. Surely things have changed? Or are you saying you should never drink draught outside of a pub or a venue open every day?

Yes they do draught. Do they do god draught? As long as it's not awful and it's cold and wet then you will probably be willing to turn a blind eye and not even notice in the same way that you would in a pub. I wouldn't accept a plastic pint glass in a pub but I am willing to do so in a venue for example. Our expectations are lowered, but usually because we are having a god time, (or anticipating having a good time), we are worried less about the quality of the beer and more about the quality of the football/rugby whatever.

If you can get the line used often enough or cleaned well enough and you have someone running the operation who is experienced, then it's not impossible, but it is harder. The more the beer flows the better, so maybe the situation with the previously mentioned venues is that they have significantly more foot-flow than the Hive.

I don't think I have ever drunk a decent Guinness at a venue, (even the Guinness bar at Twickenham).

[Darrenp77]

As promised, here is the response to my email posted earlier in this thread

Dear Darren Pettit,

Thank you for writing to us and we understand your frustration at the service provided, as it fell below our own expectations.

Please may we apologise and ensure you that we continue to train staff and alter our processes to provide a better service. This was our first full evening match in a while and unfortunately coincided with a shortage of chefs and the return of many staff members to University, leaving us stretched across the site.

We have received multiple complaints from the match regarding both Pecking Order and the Bars, and many of the concerns had also been noted by senior members of staff to be raised at our post-match debrief. May we thank you for your detailed account, which sparked an internal investigation into why the issues occurred and we are all focused on finding solutions. In the meantime, we would like to offer you two complimentary match tickets for an upcoming Home game by way of goodwill gesture; should you wish to take these up, please reply to this e-mail with your chosen match

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another member who also made a complaint, has received nearly word by word the same response, and also why would i want two free tickets when i am season ticket holder ? ?

[barnetpete]

...and also why would i want two free tickets when i am season ticket holder ? ?

Bring two friends to try and grow the fan base, just keep them away from pecking order and the bars


Good of the club to respond if only a token response.

[jerroll]

my reply:-

Dear John Erroll,

Thank you for contacting us and may we apologise for the frustration caused at Tuesday night's match.

You are correct that the Bar generally does have matchday tokens to be sold and did have tokens to sell on the day. Please may we assure you that we have spoken with the relevant Manager to make sure that the staff will be better briefed in future to prevent any further confusion.

May we thank you for writing to us and highlighting the issue.

[Darrenp77]

...and also why would i want two free tickets when i am season ticket holder ? ?

Bring two friends to try and grow the fan base, just keep them away from pecking order and the bars


Good of the club to respond if only a token response.

That's the problem, you wouldn't want to put two new potential fans through the standard of service at present

[MCB]

That's the problem, you wouldn't want to put two new potential fans through the standard of service at present

But you would the football, which hopefully would be the main reason they would want to come, otherwise take them to Nando's and the pub!

I've brought a few new people this season - 2 loved the Cambridge game. I'm always happy to take free tickets off people who don't want them in my commitment to keep bringing new people to Barnet!

[Darrenp77]

That's the problem, you wouldn't want to put two new potential fans through the standard of service at present

But you would the football, which hopefully would be the main reason they would want to come, otherwise take them to Nando's and the pub!

I've brought a few new people this season - 2 loved the Cambridge game. I'm always happy to take free tickets off people who don't want them in my commitment to keep bringing new people to Barnet!

When one of our group of five cannot make it, we do bring new people to the game and they are very impressed, a couple have even now bought season tickets. The grip at present is the general level of service/wastage and incompetence across The Hive

Let me know what game you wish to bring two more new potential members to, and you can have those tickets, obviously not to sure where they would be for

[MCB]

That's very good of you (wasn't really fishing!).

I'm bring a few newbies to the Coventry City game, so would happily take off you in exchange for beer / tea! But if a hassle, don't worry.

[Norfolkbee]

I have absolutely no problems with my experience of the service in Pecking Order. Mrs Norfolkbee and I dropped in for a meal a few weeks back after a day out in London. The food was fine, drinks too and the staff were falling over themselves to oblige. That said, we were the only two customers at 8pm on a Friday night!

[Darrenp77]

I have absolutely no problems with my experience of the service in Pecking Order. Mrs Norfolkbee and I dropped in for a meal a few weeks back after a day out in London. The food was fine, drinks too and the staff were falling over themselves to oblige. That said, we were the only two customers at 8pm on a Friday night!

That's good to hear, and must admit, myself and others eat in there regular on both matchday's and non matchday's, and agree hat the quality of the food and service is very good. It was just the whole experience for many customers last week, at our 1st midweek game that was shambolic