Back to Barnet - a question

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letchbee94
Posts: 8026
Joined: 21 Jan 2011, 20:59

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348561Post letchbee94 »

September1907 wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 12:54 It must always be on the agenda that we return to Barnet and I hope the new supporters group take this on board.
Obviously TK is fully focused on The Hive, but has always maintained, “find a suitable sight in Barnet and he will build a stadium”
That will be difficult as neither TK or the council are looking.
I was100% against the move and still am, but I will continue to support the team at the Hive and hope one day we will return. Unfortunately we have too many fans who can’t be bothered to go regularly and our home support for a team in 4th position is appalling, especially mid week games.
The important question is
What will happen to Barnet FC when TK is no longer Chairman, one day change will happen and we need to be ready.
I have written to TK on 3 occasions over the last two/ three years asking what plans are in place to secure Barnet FC future when he has gone. Sadly no response.
Agree need to know what plan is post TK era and sadly hearing that you have had no response comes as no surprise.
thebeekeeper
Posts: 409
Joined: 30 Oct 2019, 23:21

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348579Post thebeekeeper »

thefootballtrimmings wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 19:35
pletch99 wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 17:46 I think the incentive to build a new stadium is quite weak. While I agree that having the club located in Barnet would be preferable, we are talking about tens of millions of pounds.

The land has to be obtained (bought, leased or gifted), planning consent granted and than a FL standard stadium built.

What does this investment actually get:
* Happier supporter base
* Probably a small increase in attentances
* TK gets to feel good about the fact he kept his promise

I know there are supporters who have declined to attend games at the Hive and there will be more who might attend more regularly if we were in Barnet, but I am curious to see how big people think this group is. Would our attendence increase by 5%, 10%, 15%?

While I suspect we would regain some lost supporters and probably get a few new ones, I suspect we would also lose a few who are now attending the Hive because it is convenient from them.

As I said while I would prefer to see Barnet back in Barnet, the actual incentive for paying this move really isn't that strong.
Solid thoughts.

May I raise the point that the move back to Barnet is imperative to the long term survival of the club? Attendences will continue to dwindle as no new fanbase comes through fast enough and the Barnet connection really is lost over time

I think we can have the best of both world’s where The Hive complex effectively keeps the club safe financially and hosts the club headquarters but we play in a humble little ground in Barnet.

Could the supporters association put out a poll asking if we want to move back? That would be a start and reach as many bees as possible.
I think this is a really good point - we need to have a serious conversation about the long-term future of the club at The Hive in my opinion - with TK involved in that debate. The current combination of increasingly large stadium + low attendances (inevitably reducing the atmosphere), while the connection with Barnet is gradually lost... it's worrying, in my opinion.

Now it may be that TK has a plan to change that and boost the numbers. I just think we need an update on what that plan is, and how viable the future of the club is outside of the borough in the longer-term. Those answers will probably inform how big a priority searching for a site in Barnet is.
Lord Bee
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Joined: 04 Apr 2018, 07:24

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348580Post Lord Bee »

I don’t think the club is ever going to go back to Barnet. A solution might be for the new stand to be called the Underhill stand to create a lasting connection to the club’s history.
11bee717
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Joined: 02 May 2022, 15:07

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348585Post 11bee717 »

I actually think there may be an incentive for TK to take us back to Barnet, if there was a suitable option. He makes a loss on match days, and in the scenario with a tenant in and us having a smaller ground in Barnet generating more revenue, surely it’s a win win? A Plough Lane style site would be perfect
thefootballtrimmings
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 Oct 2020, 18:22

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348587Post thefootballtrimmings »

Lord Bee wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 09:51 I don’t think the club is ever going to go back to Barnet. A solution might be for the new stand to be called the Underhill stand to create a lasting connection to the club’s history.
TK should clarify if this is the case. At least be honest about the situation as so far he's actioned suggest we're staying put with this giant new stadium in the pipeline.
Check out my football blog (which includes a fair amount of Barnet FC!) https://www.thefootballtrimmings.com
ricardobee
Posts: 1715
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 11:50

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348593Post ricardobee »

“. . . At least be honest about the situation . . .”

Do you mean the honesty he showed when promising the supporters a vote about moving? In my opinion while this owner is in situ, Barnet F.C. will stay on foreign fields with no assets apart from the players. One day he will get bored and hopefully somebody will take over who realises that the name of the club is Barnet not Harrow.
eastbarnetsupporter
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Joined: 17 Sep 2016, 23:08
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Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348600Post eastbarnetsupporter »

ricardobee wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 12:13 “. . . At least be honest about the situation . . .”

Do you mean the honesty he showed when promising the supporters a vote about moving? In my opinion while this owner is in situ, Barnet F.C. will stay on foreign fields with no assets apart from the players. One day he will get bored and hopefully somebody will take over who realises that the name of the club is Barnet not Harrow.
Wasn't there a Q&A article where TK was asked about this a few years back?
pletch99
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Joined: 28 May 2011, 06:52

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348620Post pletch99 »

I think you do need to read behind the lines of what he said.

He's not stupid enough to say he won't move the club back to Barnet because that just upsets everyone.

What he basically said was that he would "consider it" if a piece of land became available, fell into his lap and somebody else sorted out the planning. That's hardly a commitment to fund a move even if some really improbable things happened.

I'm sure if one of us was able to build this basic football league standard stadium in Barnet and offered to let Barnet use it rent free, then I imagine TK would move the club back to Barnet. Unfortunately, I think Barnet winning the Champions league ten years in a row is more likely.
DerekRocholl
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Joined: 02 Feb 2011, 16:59

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348634Post DerekRocholl »

pletch99 wrote: 02 Mar 2023, 19:41 I think you do need to read behind the lines of what he said.

He's not stupid enough to say he won't move the club back to Barnet because that just upsets everyone.

What he basically said was that he would "consider it" if a piece of land became available, fell into his lap and somebody else sorted out the planning. That's hardly a commitment to fund a move even if some really improbable things happened.

I'm sure if one of us was able to build this basic football league standard stadium in Barnet and offered to let Barnet use it rent free, then I imagine TK would move the club back to Barnet. Unfortunately, I think Barnet winning the Champions league ten years in a row is more likely.
What he actually said was that if the supporters raised the funds required to register the planning application (which at the time was expected to cost £100k), he would make the planning application. Despite the efforts of a handful of supporters (with Gary Cooper deserving a special mention) we didn’t get too far before he decided to abandon the undertaking in favour of flogging off Underhill for £14.5m.

The piece of land in question at South Underhill has a foot print larger than of the old Underhill stadium (and the Hive stadium for that matter) and is owned by Barnet Council and leased to Hadley Wood Trust for the purpose of providing a site for a football training establishment on a long term lease.
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AidanGRH
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Joined: 01 Nov 2018, 17:37

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348638Post AidanGRH »

September1907 wrote: 01 Mar 2023, 12:54 I have written to TK on 3 occasions over the last two/ three years asking what plans are in place to secure Barnet FC future when he has gone. Sadly no response.
Really poor form not to even acknowledge a letter in.

Par for the course unfortunately that supporters are something to be monetised, rather than value their input.
I want to be good, is that not enough.
thefootballtrimmings
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 Oct 2020, 18:22

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348658Post thefootballtrimmings »

A good point raised about the post TK era, which will happen at some point. Will his son take over the club and site? Seem him around on match days.

They must be aware the club's supporter base is gradually diminishing over time and is only going to go one way. Even a promotion would only temporarily halt the decline. What will Barnet FC look like in a generation?
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thebeekeeper
Posts: 409
Joined: 30 Oct 2019, 23:21

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348669Post thebeekeeper »

thefootballtrimmings wrote: 03 Mar 2023, 10:28 What will Barnet FC look like in a generation?
I wonder that too – there's a somewhat philosophical element to this question, in that it ultimately comes down to 'what is Barnet Football Club and what is its purpose?'

I can't speak for other people, but my view is that a football club (particularly at lower league level) is fundamentally a representation of the place and community it serves – it's why we support [insert place name] FC, not teams named after companies or any other entities.

That relationship is obviously a little more linear in provincial towns than it is in the urban sprawl of London, but it's surely still true that a big part of the appeal to supporting your local club is that it's...well... local. It represents where you're from, where you grew up or where you live.

I just wonder where that leaves Barnet FC, as the generations that remember Underhill gradually pass the baton onto younger supporters over the coming decades. Do Barnet-based youngsters see it as a club that represents them? Are there new young fans emerging in Edgware and Harrow – and conversely, do they see a team called Barnet as a reflection of where they're from? Or – potentially – does that generation of fans not even care about the local connection at all?

I'm not sure of the answer, but as I posted in the Oldham match thread, we're around 500 supporters down on midweek games from two decades ago (and I suspect in reality it is even more, as I would imagine ST holders who didn't attend weren't included in older figures, before purchases were all made online). It must be a similar ballpark figure for weekend fixtures too.

People may think it is doom-mongering or unnecessarily divisive to bring up this topic, but I think it's important to do so. Though it's hard to identify what action needs to be taken, if (to take the European Super League description!) "legacy" supporters start to drop off, and we are not able to replace them at the same rate, where are we going to be in 10, 20 or 30 years time?
ricardobee
Posts: 1715
Joined: 26 Feb 2011, 11:50

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348684Post ricardobee »

“ . . . where are we going to be in 10, 20 or 30 years time?”

And there lies the problem. Only one man knows. Is he happy making money from weddings, hiring out the pitches around the hive, the medical centre while the football team plods on. Will other teams be invited to share the main pitch? I suspect we will never be invited to share the answers to these questions. I hope in these years to come I’m able to return to watch my team playing a home game in Barnet.
thefootballtrimmings
Posts: 95
Joined: 11 Oct 2020, 18:22

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348696Post thefootballtrimmings »

Excellent points from thebeekeeper. It may make some eyes roll on here but ultimately we're thinking about the long-term future of the club.

Whilst i don't see the club name or colours changing anytime soon, the club's identity has taken a battering with the location change. It's been 10 years and The Hive still doesn't feel like home and for me personally, never will. It's a bizarre away trip.

I predict minus 1,000 crowds will be the absolute norm in 5-10 years time if we stay in The National League due to not enough new fans come through the system. We've already had a few poor crowds in recent years, and that's after being topped up by ST holders who aren't actually present (see Oldham game as an example).
Check out my football blog (which includes a fair amount of Barnet FC!) https://www.thefootballtrimmings.com
beew
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Joined: 29 Jan 2012, 17:46

Re: Back to Barnet - a question

Post: # 348711Post beew »

The only way back would be to do a deal with W&F and Barnet Council to take over the football centre at South Underhill. There's room there for a 10000 ground. We could offer W&F use of the Hive pitches for their set up, which would offer them more than they currently have on Barnet Lane. The biggest problem that W&F have is lack of car parking spaces and if you go past on a Sat or Sunday, the parents park on the pavements blocking pedestrians.and the residents aren't happy. Probably never happen though.
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