The Hive is arguably a root cause of some of the issues discussed, whilst being perhaps a symptom or even incidental factor to others. In any case, there are some valid criticisms in there from which even the biggest apologist would struggle to hide. Perhaps the (what I consider to be) more valid criticisms make people less forgiving when it comes to things that would otherwise be less important. I don't know.
Some relevant and maybe less interesting points that came to mind as I was listening.
- Copthall versus Hive
Connecting the tube line to Mill Hill East would have been brilliant but hard to believe that something as huge as that was ever on the cards(?) For me both sites are located in the Edgware area (even if one is technically "Harrow"), and quite inconvenient for anyone that doesn't have a car.
- Barnet FC/TK versus Barnet Council
The "coincidence" that both Barnet Playing Fields and Copthall have been subsequently developed without Barnet FC. Not sure if the implication is that Barnet FC/TK is the common denominator and therefore shoulders some blame for that, however it is equally true that The Hive site was developed where Barnet Council was instead the notable absentee.
I think there could have been some emphasis on the bloody awful (and ultimately short sighted) attitude of some of the residents around Underhill. They proved to be our biggest obstacle in my opinion
And look at what they have ended up with now...whatever the truth, the discussion certainly brings home how infuriating it is that such similar facilities to The Hive are now present on Barnet Lane. Terrible, terrible shame, and it is not like TK didn't want to do that years ago.- The Referendum
I found this thread which might provide some context:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1882
Not sure that there is much more on record about it nowadays.
We can complain about the lack of referendum, but no fan or group of fans made enough of a noise to force the issue. We also had record season ticket ("membership") sales in that first Hive season, I think, about 1,000. Subsequent fallout is perhaps less about The Hive per se and more about what has gone on since.
- Off Field Revenue/Hosting First Team Games
During a pre-Hive Q&A, I actually specifically asked about the financial benefit of "temporarily" moving the first team to The Hive. Here is the answer, though it might not fully address the points made in the podcast:
It is probably fair to make note of the significant additional overhead and impracticalities associated with maintaining two sites. I'd be curious to know what the most ideal but realistic alternative outcome could have been.This is a very good question and easy for me to answer. Apart from the minimum things you would expect at a stadium like some toilets, a bit of food, changing rooms, Directors and Players Lounges etc., we have nothing commercial at Underhill whatsoever. Absolutely nothing! We work from temporary cabins and although we have some limited planning permission to build on the car park, this is part of the Cricket Club land and the Council won’t renew the lease or allow us to build anything there anyway. In fact, since the announcement of our departure the Council has only offered us a six month extension on the current lease for the crumbling Pavilion Bar and that’s it!
At The Hive, in addition to the usual requirements, we have banqueting for over 500 guests; Sponsors’ Hospitality for 200; a Supporters’ Bar and restaurant with a capacity of 560; parking for 350 cars and 10 coaches; as well as a café, crèche, gym etc. and everything is new, not 100 years old! The possibilities for The Hive make it a very exciting time to be a Bee!
- "Temporary"/10 -Year Move
Yes this was likely not really the intention. But again, the fanbase did nothing to force TK's hand. He made a very direct offer to the fans that he would pursue a return to Barnet if the fans could raise the funds for a planning application. One brilliant fan committed to walking to every (Saturday?) home game for a whole season, but only about 12 of us pledged any funds. Hard to blame TK for focussing on trying to move the club forward instead of waiting around for us to get our act together.
Was the move to The Hive really sprung upon us only a couple of months before the end of that final Underhill season? I recall it being at least a little earlier, perhaps very early in the 2012-13 season.
- The Dilemma Article
Yes, quite a blunder.
- Ambition/Promise of League 1
Moving to The Hive would have been easier to swallow if it occurred in a different context, i.e. on the crest of a wave of on-field success.
Success on the pitch is transient and can drastically change in a matter of months. Infrastructure on the other hand is more long-term and predictable so surely needs its own separate focus.
Graham Westley was obviously a(nother) disastrous appointment, which was certainly hard to swallow at the time, but he had my support while he was here and I'd still have preferred it if he was a success, a tonedeaf choice in hindsight maybe, desperate certainly, but Barnet legend Barry Fry apparently saw him as a suitable fit for the club and personally recommended him.
Nothing is guaranteed in football and despite our miserable recent failures, evidence suggests that we spent more on our team than at any other time in our history once we moved to The Hive.
- Identity & The Future
The most difficult topic for me, and the reason I personally thought it short sighted of many of our fans to so readily dismiss the Back2Barnet Campaign. Goodness knows where the next set of Barnet fans is going to come from. A real concern. However, I don't see why this would be a reason for any current Barnet fans to withdraw their support (notwithstanding being pissed off about some of the other things discussed ).
Another point though that I think has been missed both in this episode and the episode with Dan Whiting: I am not sure about other people's experiences, but for most kids in Barnet, as far as I could tell from my experiences at school, Underhill was a joke and a major obstacle in attracting a new generation of Barnet fans. Not saying The Hive has solved that problem, but an important point.
Disappointing that any of you can take any personal satisfaction from what has gone on with Barnet recently. Of course, other people's mileage does vary so to speak, but for me, for now at least, so much, or at least enough of, Barnet FC remains in the continuation of its history, and the familiar faces both in the stands and (until very recently) on the pitch and in the dugout.
It is funny, presenter Iain talks about living abroad. I am doing same now, and despite *how bad* it has been for most of the last several years, I remain as desperate as ever to see our team do well.
It would feel even less un-like Barnet with the likes of the presenters still among us at games. You care enough to make the podcast I guess, so I won't lose hope yet
Some real Barnet people (Darren Currie and Martin Allen) really went out of their way to try and get you to support their teams, I hope people like that continue to represent the club and one day convince you before it is too late.
